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Published: July 30, 2009
U.S. Bishops Pass Liturgy Items
Not Unexpected, Says Helen Hitchcock
[Editor: This news release from USCCB, issued 17 July, is followed by comments from Helen Hitchcock, sent in a July 28 email. Hitchcock will write about the June meeting and this vote in the August issue of Adoremus Bulletin, and according to Hitchcock, will appear on the Adoremus.org website in “a day or two.”]
WASHINGTON (USCCB)—All four liturgical item actions whose votes were inconclusive at the June general assembly of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops are now approved. Support for the action items continues the work for the English translation of the new Roman Missal for use in the United States.
The deadline for the submission of ballots was July 16. These items require two-thirds (163) votes of Latin Church members for to pass, and subsequent recognition by the Holy See.
The translation of the Order of Mass II (of the Roman Missal) received 191 votes in favor, 25 against and five abstentions.
The translation of the Masses and Prayers for Various Needs and Intentions passed by 163 votes, while 53 bishops voted against it and five abstained.
The translation of the rituals for Votive Masses and Masses for the Dead passed 181 to 32 with two abstentions.
And the translation of the text for Ritual Masses received 186 votes in favor, 32 nays and two abstentions.
“This vote marks a steady and sure movement toward the translation of the Roman Missal. The modifications and amendments made by the bishops should be very helpful to the development of the final translation,” said Msgr. Anthony Sherman, executive director of the Secretariat for Divine Worship.
In the fall, the bishops will consider the Proper of Saints Gray Book, The Commons Gray Book, U.S. Propers for the Roman Missal, U.S. Adaptations for the Roman Missal and Roman Missal Supplement Gray Book. A “Gray Book” is a revised translation proposed for final vote by the International Commission for English in the Liturgy (ICEL).
“The bishops will then have completed this section of the review process, and we would then await a recognitio from the Congregation of Divine Worship at the Vatican,” Msgr. Sherman said. “The time for this is not yet determined.”
Catechetical materials to educate the clergy and the faithful on the changes included in the new translation of the Roman Missal can be found here.
 HELEN HITCHCOCK of Adoremus, Society for the Renewal of the Sacred Liturgy, comments:
“The positive results of the absentee ballot were not unexpected. A large majority had voted favorably on the texts at the June meeting — but all require 2/3 majority of the eligible (active Latin-rite) bishops. (One item lacked only 4 votes at the meeting.)
“The approval of these four segments of the Missal translation means that at their November meeting, the bishops will vote on the final segments of the English translation — as the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship has required.
“When all are approved by all ICEL-member countries, they require final approval (recognitio) by the Holy See. If all goes according to expectations, this final approval should be received fairly quickly. Then there will be a year allowed for publication of books, advance preparation for priests, people, etc., before the new translation will be used in parishes.
Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:34 AM By ted
Meanwhile, people are still exposed to the faulty translations in place for almost 40 years. The need for careful and meticulous work on these things notwithstanding, there must be a faster way to get things done.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:07 AM By ED
This all can be solved easily by making the ExtraOrdinary(Gregorian) Rite in Latin as the main Sunday Mass in each parish, then eliminate the Novus Ordo but allow the Gregorian Rite to be said in the vernacular languages(English, Spanish, etc,etc) This will return liturgical precision to the mass, solid prayers and music but allow also the vernacular.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:51 AM By James B. Phillips
Busy rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic as countless souls continue to fall into hell like snowflakes.
James B. Phillips
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:05 AM By Peter
If they would just scrap the whole trauma and return to the liturgy of the 1500 years before 1969
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:23 AM By pete
I'll believe it when I see it. Easily the ordinary of the Mass could have been introduced with an inexspensive insert into the present missal. I mean from " and also with you" to "and with your spirit" has to wait years???? Within a couple of months the congregation would have been able to absorb this. Really. Seems like here there's a deal with certain publishers that corners the market and gouges the Church. What will the Missal cost? I remember what the Mexican hierarchy did a generation ago.They had a leaflet insert of the texts as they translated and when it was over, they simply printed the whole thing. Thus there was gradual and relatively quick availability of good vernacular texts. They got it right the FIRST time!
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:27 AM By betty
would you please tell my pastor to stop telling jokes at one particular point in the Mass, He stops at the place we used to call the Ite Missa Est and tells a joke while most of the congregation stands up listening to it. The jokes are dumb and pointless, not raunchy or anything, but why does he decide to tell a joke at all? I thought priests were supposed to say something reverent or thoughtprovoking at this point. Can you do anything about him?
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:11 PM By michael mchale
This is nothing but a rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic.The Vatican II inspired novus ordo/protestant supper liturugy must be consigned to the dustbin of history, with the rstoration of the traditional rite as the one and only mass worthy to be offered to our Lord. The new mass is a failed and miserable attempt to achieve a false eccumenism-an eccumenism that seeks convergance instead of conversion, and which rejects the doctrine of extra ecclesia nulla salus. Is it any coincidence that the radicalization of the sixties and western civilization's subsequent freefall into perversion and all kinds of unspeakable sin just happens to correspond w/ the liberalism promulgated in the documents of the council ,culminating in the imposition of the novus ordo service in 1969? I think not.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:50 PM By joe
Just bring back the Tridentine Mass for the most reverent expression of worship. This other stuff is just that - stuff; and simplistic, mundane, inane and insipid stuff at that. One need not be a genius to ascertain this.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:53 PM By William
Ah yes, mass in the venacular...what we wanted and never got. I'm now 68 years old and was a young seminarian when all the rot took over. Myself and many others never thought we would get a new rite altogether. There were so many magnificient bang on Anglican translations of the ancient rite (I'm not talking about the heretical BCP) that could have been adopted or adapted. The best being The American Missal edited by an Episcopal priest Father Earley Maddux of the SSJE when the SSJE were still orthodox anglo catholics.(not sure of spelling of first name). There was also the ever precious Knott MIssal.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:58 PM By Rick DeLano
Yes, you can do something about him. Start assisting at a Traditional Latin Mass. You can find them listed locally at unavoce.
If you are grinding your teeth and being deprived of your peace by some priest who has confused the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with a Kiwanis Club get together, then simply leave. Do what's important, which is to worship God according to His Holy Will, and not according to the grotesque confusion of face of the victims of the lit-niks. Over time the priest will, perhaps, receive the grace to be ashamed of himself before the Thrice Holy God.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:19 PM By FW DePerrault
What a protracted, expensive and needless process all of this is. When you add the cost of the luxury hotel accommodations provided to the bishops for these conferences, it really inflates the cost of making a simple decision. In this case a needless one too; I will hunker down with my 1962 Latin Missal and pray that they come to their senses and make this the norm again.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:39 PM By elinem
James:
I doubt hell has many snowflakes.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:38 PM By Richard Flores
PRIORITIES?
While over 50% of supposed Catholics vote for the most pro-death president in history, the USCCB is worried about this? Our Jesuit-run colleges are falling apart spiritually, Bishops and priests refuse to promote life, California's parishes are in turmoil as many bishops refuse to support basic doctrine, and they're worried about what should be a non-problem! I'm sorry, but when the church is in crisis, I feel that our leadership must not have their priorities in place to spend time on this. There are too many other crises that are NOT being addressed.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:15 PM By Angelo
I am a Traditionalist. To me the Novus Ordo Mass was a freak accident. I never doubted its validity though. But when the weeky Wanderer Catholic newspaper, began the article
"What does the Prayer really say." Translating the actual Latin prayers of the Novus Ordo Mass, literaly. I found the actual prayers of the New Mass to be of great excellence.
When I seen on You Tube, the New Mass said the way it was supposed to, in Latin with Priest and people facing the altar. I now see the Novus Ordo Missae " IF SAID CORRECTLY!"
in no way a break with Tradition. Though I still prefer the Gregorian Rite.
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Posted Friday, July 31, 2009 2:35 AM By HMacK
The problem is with the NO service - it is defective. The problem would be solved by restoring the Holy Mass in Latin
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Posted Saturday, August 01, 2009 11:24 AM By Alfonso
If the priest offers the new mass using Eucharistic Prayer 1, the Roman Canon, in latin, the mass is essentially the same as the Gregorian Rite or Tridentine Mass. Why don't people know this??? The Holy Father, Pope Paul the sixth, refused to allow the concilium to eliminate the Roman Canon and in all kinds of other ways he stopped and restrained them. A rumor on blogs during the Pope's visit to New York several years ago also claimed that by reading lips, it actually seemed that Benedict was using extra offertory prayers (of the trad Mass) as he was censing the altar. Always remember that the Roman Catholic Church is INDEFECTIBLE because some people make terrible mistakes in the faith and even set themselves up in opposition to the Rock of Peter.
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 8:36 AM By David
For those of you who want the Tridentine mass brought back, there are actually a large number of Catholics (I don't think I'm mistaken when I say the huge majority) who would not like that. I don't believe it would improve my prayer or lead to a deeper relationship with God, or a more profound obedience to him. It may do that for you. If so, I suggest that you, then, attend the Tridentine mass. I however do not want it and I am not alone.
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 5:42 PM By JLS
David, if you find yourself bottomed out on a sand bar in the river of life, consider the greater depths of the traditional Mass. See, David, your post shows that it's all about what David wants, not what God wants.
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 6:01 PM By Frank
I agree with David. A general council of the Church voted for Mass in the vernacular. Now, some people want to go back to latin. Sad. And about kneeling for Communion....the practice of the early Church and of the Eastern Church and Orthodox churches is to stand at Communion (actually for the whole Mass)...it is in imitation of the Heavenly Worship of Heaven as in the book of Revelation. As far as language is concerned, everyone younger than 30 is growing up in an inclusive language society....for the Church to use EXclusive language does not help worship ("man" is no longer generic regardless of what the Adoremus Society says). It is not inclusive language, it is not the Mass as we have it, it is not guitar masses (very nice if done well)......it is the lack of quality and depth in the HOMILIES that is the real 500lb gorilla in the frontroom. The Vatican and bishops should be worrying and doing something about that first, that is what people are starving for....homilies that uplift, inspire grace, explain the scriptures.....and this on a consistent basis. Some of the homilies I hear sound like they were written by first year theology students.
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 6:21 PM By steven weigand
First came the 40 year + Novus Ordo train wreck and now more liturgical track is being laid down for only God knows, a slow and grinding halt.I have watched your "worship spaces" (once beautiful churches) become a mockery, your graceful music pond away for show tunes, your priesthood nearly destroyed by sodomites and moderest, your several versions of liturgy (I have lost count) with constantly new inovations disguarded in Orwellian fashion, and the sad process of questionable belief in Real Presence, either by redefinition, apathy, or both... Your shepards are clueless and your pews grow dusty. Please wake from your slumber.My heart is crushed for those of you trapped in this nightmare and I will pray for you.
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 7:31 PM By GhostofPeterman
I love these Bishops sitting around voting for something to make themselves feel good. If they didn't deliver a solution, the Vatican would have simply imposed it on them. In fact, they had run out of time, the Vatican's deadline was looming. Re arranging deck chairs indeed, quit dragging your feet and change the liturgy to an accurate translation.
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 10:01 PM By Chas
David, I find it hard to pray and have a conversation with God when the band is playing bad 60's folk songs - tambourine included - to keep the congregation awake. Probably the same reason the priests have to spice up their homilies with props and hip talk. That doesn't focus attention on God - it focuses it on the "performers". Is it any wonder that so many Catholics seem more concerned about the number of church organizations (i.e. social clubs) they can participate in, and how good the music is, when the real focus should be on participating in - not being entertained by - the Sacrifice of the Mass?
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 11:07 PM By F.Joseph
Still Catholic Mass (Tridentine Latin Mass) is alive in our Catholic Church and Catholic Clergys still saying the True Catholic Mass CMRI.org, traditionalmass.org "Even if Catholics faithful to tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ. (Coll. Selecta SS. Eccl. Patrum. Caillu and Guillou, Vol. 32, pp 411-412)." .And we want to pray for the convertion of counciler sect in scismatic protestant rome.
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 7:30 AM By Alfonso
David, don't fall into the mistake of rupture. Pope Benedict already stated that the traditional mass was never abrogated. Vatican 2 required that gregorian chant be used (was this followed) and that latin be retained (with some introduction of the vernacular). Now think of your parish Sunday mass with asperges (sprinkling with holy water) at the begining, some gregorian chant, the incensing of the altar and kneeling for communion on the tongue (as Pope Benedict requires for all who wish to receive from him). The most important participation all of us can offer at mass is reverence before God the Son, the Word Incarnate who by the visible ordained priest changes bread and wine into His Body and Blood sacrifices Himself for the salvation of mankind. Under the outward appearance of bread and wine, Jesus Christ is really, truly and substantially PRESENT with His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:18 AM By Dave N.
Too bad that even the new translation has some serious defects. At best, a move from the fire into the frying pan.
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 10:33 AM By dick Prudlo
As the Bishops in America rearrange the deck furniture on the Titanic, faithful Catholics will continue their exits to the catacombs and practice a Faith completely unknown to those that should know better.
I have been a practicing Catholic for 64 years and yearn not for the Mass of the Ages for I have it, but for the millions of Catholics who know not what their Faith is and how it has been despoiled by our Shephards
Would that these men would actually have their flocks salvation in mind when tinkering with a broken liturgy.
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:35 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to David: Catholics have ALWAYS had the RIGHT to access the Mass of the Ages. To put the matter differently: Today as yesterday, this right perdures, even vis-a-vis the Novus Ordo Missae (the New Order of the Mass) -- I mean, even vis-a-vis the new liturgy promulgated by Pope Paul VI. The right of Catholics to access the Mass of the Ages, however, has been denied for a very long time by the post-Conciliar apparatus -- but never by the Church herself. In all actuality, the latter denial would always already have been impossible since: The right to access the Mass of the Ages is a right that obtains IN PERPETUITY. ~ Space, David, does not permit my listing the liturgical defects of the New Order of the Mass; instead, I would refer you to Alfons Cardinal Stickler's discussion of this question. Alfons Cardinal Stickler, "The Attractiveness of the Traditional Latin Mass," in _Latin Mass: The Journal of Catholic Culture and Tradition_ (Summer 1995).
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:47 PM By Barbara
This is just another Vatican II. Why don't they call it Vatican II.5? They didn't overcome all Roman Catholics when they ousted the Tridentine Latin Mass in the 1960's. Fortunately some Catholics are today's traditionalists remaining loyal to the teachings, sacraments, and rituals that Jesus Christ instituted and not the pied-pipers of men that have so terribly damaged the Catholic Faith and Faithful. Despite all the mocking and ridicule by the modernists, the traditionals like the early Catholics have hid in the catacombs and remained fervent to the "Truth, Way, and the Life" not giving in to the corruption of the Catholic Faith and false heresey of ecumenism. These traditionalists are infact rebounding and are growing in numbers world-wide. Some believe that the actions described in this article are just another attempt to sucker the traditionalists back-in and try to brainwash them again as though the traditionalists so bent on communion with the Vatican are naïve, will succoumb, and eventually dilute their fervent and strong Catholic heritage. Oh how confusing it all is. What is really going on? Pray to Blessed Mother and Jesus that they will show us the Will of our Almighty Father.
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:58 PM By JLS
Pope is now, according to an article in a leftist net rag, insisting that people kneel and receive on the tongue, as a move to regenerate respect for the Holy Eucharist.
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:01 PM By Mark from PA
"Scismatic protestant Rome"!!!!! Do you people actually think God cares what language we pray in? If you like the Latin Mass, fine, but Catholics that go to English Masses are not scismatic.
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:49 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to F. Joseph: The opposition of the post-Conciliar apparatus to the Catholic tradition is a sad-making, grievous reality but it is NOT to be confused with the false notion that Rome -- I mean, Rome understood as the Diocesan city that abides within the local jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome, which is also to say, Rome understood as the See of St. Peter -- can be fairly referred to as "schismatic protestant rome". Such an imputation, rather, is the call-sign of faux-traditionalism rather than an expression of authentic Catholicity. True, we should pray for the intellectual and moral conversion of the post-Conciliar apparatus. On the other hand, it is symptomatic of the tendency of an evidently false traditionalism to succumb to irreality -- for example, the irreality that we encounter when we read heated references to Rome as "schismatic" or as "protestant".
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Posted Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:25 AM By Kenjiro Shoda
The best answer to the liturgical crisis is to reject outright all the liturgical reforms of Vatican II and return to the Tridentine Mass and all Catholic traditions pre-Vatican II. The Church would recover seemingly in a heartbeat.
I realize that that is impossible at least for now. But this new Mass translation is somewhat of an improvement.
At least our Sunday Mass will (at least from the point of the spoken parts), bare little similarity to Protestantism, as the present translations do now. The present Novus Ordo ICEL 1971 translation is very similar to both Episcopalian, and Lutheran "services". Perhaps that was their agenda back then.
These Protestant groups have been bemoaning the return of a more sacred language to the Catholic Mass representative in these new translations, and also wailing that much ecumenical porgress will be lost, because we won't sound similar to Protestantism anymore. AT LEAST THAT'S ONE POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT FOR THIS NEW TRANSLATION !!!
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Posted Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:25 AM By Mark from PA
You people need not worry about Rome. The Mass there is being said in Latin or Italian (not English). So for those that hate the Mass in English, you would feel more at home in Rome.
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Posted Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:51 AM By Virgilio
Novus Ordo Mess...the sage continues.... It is like the Harry Potter series... the next is worse than the last. I do not play guessing games. Is this mass valid or not? If the priest dresses like clown is still valid. Nooo, sir...!! As far as I am concerned, they can say mass upside down, laying or sitting. I am nos leaving my unique, beautiful and eternal Holy Traditional Mass. Period.
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Posted Wednesday, August 05, 2009 3:17 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Mark from PA: In regard to private prayer, yes, as a general matter, "what language we pray in" is a matter of indifference, but this is not the case when it comes to the public prayer of the Church: namely, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Alfons Cardinal Stickler summarizes the present situation regarding the liturgical use of Latin as follows: "There is one theological principle completely overthrown by the liturgical reform but confirmed by both the Council of Trent AND the Second Vatican Council, after a long and sober discussion. (I assisted, and can confirm that the clear resolutions of the final text of the Council constitution substantially reaffirmed it.) That principle is: the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rite. As in the Council of Trent, so in Vatican II the Council fathers admitted vernacular only as an exception." See Alfons Cardinal
Stickler, "The Attractiveness of the Traditional Latin Mass," in _The Latin Mass: A Journal of Catholic Culture_ (Summer 1995). From within this perspective, Mark, what you seem to have done is gone ahead and conformed yourself to a situation in which the exception -- namely, the use of the vernacular -- has become exclusive. The truth, however, cannot be evaded. Per the Council of Trent AND the Second Vatican Council, the exclusive use of the vernacular in the Mass should never have come to prevail throughout the Church in the first place. Far then from being a matter of indifference, the exclusion of Latin from the liturgy of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a matter that needs to be redressed, today more than ever. Whence "the legitimate desire and the pastoral preference for the Tridentine Mass" on the part of the Christian faithful (Cardinal Stickler).
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Posted Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:01 PM By MJM
I THINK THE POPE NEEDS TO CALL FOR A VATICAN 111 COUNCIL TO EXPLOIT ALL OF THIS AND TAKE CHARGE TO RESTORE THE TRUE FAITH AND TRUE MASS OF ALL TIMES
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Posted Thursday, August 06, 2009 8:18 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to MJM: The pontificate of Benedict XVI has taken a different course than the one you envision. Pope Benedict's course is to enter into doctrinal discussions with the Society of St. Pius X regarding signal texts from the documents of the Second Vatican Council -- texts that require disambiguation, not just for the sake of the SSPX as supplicant and interlocutor but for the sake of the Church as a whole. ~ MJM, why then not a Vatican Council III? On the one hand, utopian hyer-progressivists have long hankered for a Vatican III made in the image of their own dreams, while on the other hand disgruntled faux-conservatives have long hankered for a catechontic Council
the purpose of which would be to settle accounts (as it were) so to resolve the contemporary crisis. Wisely, Pope
Benedict is not going to accommodate these Vatican Council TREYISTAS, whatever camp they are in.
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Posted Friday, August 07, 2009 4:04 PM By Mark from PA
So why do so many of you think that the Pius X Catholics and the Pius V Catholics and all those that prefer the Latin Mass are so much better than those that prefer the Mass in English? Do you think changing all the Masses into Latin and kicking those that prefer English out of the Church would actually strengthen the Church in the US? Some go on about priests dressing like clowns and I have NEVER seen such a thing.
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Posted Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:30 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Mark from PA: (1) There is no such thing as "Pius X Catholics" and/or "Pius V Catholics"; Catholics are always, and first of all, Catholics SANS PHRASE -- that is, Catholics are always, and first of all, Catholics without adjectival characterizations attached to their Catholicity. (2) The issue is not the counter-sacral abuses that occasionally attend the New Order of the Mass but rather the immemorial right of all Catholics to access the traditional Latin Mass, whether these Catholics chose to exercise that right or not. (3) The total vernacularization of the Mass (viz., the Mass entirely in Enlgish, entirely in Spanish, entirely in German, entirely in Japanese, etc. cannot be squared with the intent of the fathers of the Council of Trent nor the intent of the fathers of the Second Vatican Council. To the contrary, both the Council of Trent and the Second Vatican Council upheld that principle that the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rite. (4) When said with the proper intent, the New Order of the Mass -- the New Order promulgated by Pope Paul VI -- is a valid Mass. No one, Mark, is proposing to kick those who prefer the Novus Ordo out of the Church. Hasn't Pope Benedict made that perfectly clear? Nor is anyone proposing "kicking those who prefer English out of the Church" -- wrong though some of these Catholics are about the evident continuity of the Council of Trent and the Second Vatican Council on the matter of preserving the Latin language in the Latin rite.
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Posted Monday, August 10, 2009 10:42 AM By Chas
Mark from PA, he may not be _dressed_ like a clown, but... Google "Fr. Joe Kempf and his homiletic helper, Big Al". Now, I'm sure he has the best of intentions, from a teaching standpoint. But using a puppet during a sermon... what happened to basic reverence at Mass? From the celebrant? Again, is this about God, or the guy giving a furry blue muppet a voice during Mass?
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Posted Monday, August 10, 2009 6:32 PM By Mark from PA
Chas, I looked up Fr. Joe Kempf. He uses a puppet to talk to children. We are talking about the sermon here, not the consecration. I take no offense in this. I read that Fr. Kempf also does grief counseling and has written several books. He sounds like a great guy. If you don't like the guy, just don't go to his Masses.
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Posted Monday, August 10, 2009 7:55 PM By Bob
You guys have got to be kidding. Some of us grew up in the 40-50s and were alter boys on a daily basis. I still can recite the lating prayers at the foot of the alter and all the others. Thank God we don't have that any more. VII was in the 60s folks. Soon all of us old warriors will be gone. Do you realize how many generations have never heard a Lating Mass. Do you know how many current priest have never heard a latin mass. They have no idea what it is about.
Those who are worrried about the "new" order of Mass might remember that every Pope since Paul VI has used it every day of their reign. When you watch the Mass from St. Peter's it is the "new" order. Generally, what most of you want to do is take us back to the 40s. Like so many other things that our grandkids laugh at us about, is our insistance on doing things the old way. Let's bring people to church, not drive them away. I suggest that those of us over 70 should stop wishing for how it use to be.
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Posted Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:15 AM By Percy
"When heretics occupy the places of authority, heresy becomes the law and orthodoxy becomes heresy. This legalization of heresy does not debilitate the Catholic faithful, but rather places a heavy burden upon them to bear witness to the wickedness of the law and to it's logical consequence - the non-authority of the apparent authority."
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Posted Friday, September 11, 2009 6:37 AM By katyz
Bob, you are describing a mass conversion to Protestantism.That's what came of VII. From local dioceses to the Vatican, they say they're Catholic but they're not. Instead of laughing about it you should consider fighting for Our Lord and Lady. Remember, in St. Athanasius' time only two bishops in the world were Catholic, the rest Arian. We're in that kind of trouble today. Choose the right side before night comes and you can't choose any more!
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:36 PM By Thom
Sorry, but the Novus Ordo Mass is still Protestant, bad hymns, too many lay people in casual dress around the altar, NO incense, tacky altar table, potato sack vestments, really awful. No wonder Catholics are looking into Eastern Orthodoxy. No wonder Catholic churches are nearly empty.
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:37 PM By Thom
Sorry, but the Novus Ordo Mass is still Protestant, bad hymns, too many lay people in casual dress around the altar, NO incense, tacky altar table, potato sack vestments, really awful. No wonder Catholics are looking into Eastern Orthodoxy. No wonder Catholic churches are nearly empty.
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