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Published: December 1, 2009
Bishop Cordileone’s Masses Threatened
Militant Disruptions in the Works?
Editor: The following post appeared in GayBuzz.blogspot on November 28. Included here are the comments on the blog.
 Last week Bishop Salvatore Cordileone of the Catholic Diocese of Oakland signed on to the National Organization for Marriage’s new anti-gay manifesto, the Manhattan Declaration.
Led by NOM chairman Robert George and former Watergate felon Chuck Colson, 152 religious leaders met in Manhattan on November 20th to draft the declaration. This is how it was reported by the Catholic News Agency.
“An unprecedented coalition of prominent Christian clergy, ministry leaders, and scholars has crafted a 4,700-word declaration addressing the sanctity of life, traditional marriage, and religious liberty. The declaration issues “a clarion call” to Christians to adhere to their convictions and informs civil authorities that the signers will not “under any circumstance” abandon their Christian consciences.”
The signatories explained that they speak now because in order ‘to defend principles of justice and the common good that are now under assault.’"
“These 152 zealots drafted, approved and signed their Declaration of War on full civil rights for gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender (LGBT) Americans last week. They threw in some other societal beefs, just to try and mask the overriding issue, their fervent opposition to same-sex marriage,” said Fred Karger in his posting on Californians Against Hate.
According to On Top Magazine, the document's language also takes aim at other gay rights laws, including a recently approved law that adds sexual orientation and gender identity to the list of federally recognized hate crimes and the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, a bill that would ban workplace discrimination against gay men, lesbians and transgender people.
Bishop Cordileone was among dozens of cardinals, bishops and other prominent religious leaders in the Catholic Church signing the Declaration. The Catholic Church has been flexing its muscles recently when it comes to anti-gay political action, giving more than half a million dollars to pass Measure 1 in Maine and preaching from the pulpit against LGBT rights. (It should be noted that not a single Mormon signed the Declaration as it appears that the Mormon Church is backing away from its anti-gay stance, at least publically.)
Cordileone was appointed bishop of the Oakland Diocese in May of this year. Prior to his appointment he was auxiliary bishop in San Diego, where he was at the forefront of putting Proposition 8 on the ballot.
Here’s how the Catholic Exchange reported Cordileone’s anti-gay stance in a question and answer article.
“Many Americans — including many Catholics — view same-sex marriage as an equality issue for homosexuals. But Bishop Cordileone says redefining marriage will undermine parents, Catholic schools and the Church’s ability to teach faith and morality to children. The prelate says legal recognition of same-sex unions has already ushered in discrimination against those who disagree on moral grounds.”
You can also read the following article on Cordileone in the East Bay Express: The Father of Proposition 8.
It is time we let Bishop Cordileone know there are consequences for his actions. Is anyone up for a rally in front of the Oakland Diocese or a disruption of services? Let me know and I’m happy to help organize.
In the meantime you can let Cordileone know how you feel by writing him at:
Diocese of Oakland?
2121 Harrison St., Suite 100?
Oakland, CA 94612
Or email administrative assistant David E. Staal: dstaal@oakdiocese.org
By the way, here are the other Catholic cardinals and bishops who signed the Manhattan Declaration:
Bishop Sam Aquila, Diocese of Fargo, ND
Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, Archdiocese of Denver, CO
Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio, Diocese of Brooklyn
Archbishop Timothy Dolan, Diocese of New York, NY
Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz, Archdiocese of Louisville, KY
Adam Cardinal Maida,?Archbishop Emeritus, Diocese of Detroit
Bishop Richard J. Malone, Diocese of Portland, ME
Bishop Robert C. Morlino, Diocese of Madison, WI
Archbishop John J. Myers, Archdiocese of Newark, NJ
Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann, Diocese of Kansas City, KS
Archbishop John Nienstedt, Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis
Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted, Diocese of Phoenix, AZ
Justin Cardinal Rigali?Archbishop, Archdiocese of Philadelphia
Bishop Michael J. Sheridan, Diocese of Colorado Springs, CO
Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl, Archdiocese of Washington, D.C.
Bishop David A. Zubik, Diocese of Pittsburgh, PA
Posted by Robert Polzoni at 9:42 AM
5 comments:
Stephen said...
I am up for a peaceful vigil across from the church..I don't believe disturbing their place of worship would be necesarily helpful...
November 28, 2009 12:01 PM
Anonymous said...
Defending natural marriage is not "anti-gay," just as defending unborn life is not "anti-woman."??Don't feel persecuted. There are a few kooks who embarrass Christians with their extremism, but most Christians who defend natural marriage also love the gay and lesbian friends in their lives.
November 28, 2009 12:17 PM
Robert said...
I hear what you're saying but peaceful vigils have never advanced the cause. The bishop is happy to shred the Constitution by blurring the lines of the separation of church and state and happy to deny us our rights. I believe we have to make him feel a bit more uncomfortable.
November 28, 2009 12:36 PM
Anonymous said...
Saying that something is a civil right doesn't make it so. The burden of proof is on you, since you are going against 10,000 years of human social convention. Plus, if the basis for marriage should be love without reference to a mutual complementarity of sexes, then logically there is nothing to stop state recognition of polygamous marriage or incestuous marriage. I'm willing to bet you won't have that on any placards anytime soon.
November 28, 2009 1:07 PM
vquack said...
This is a conscious effort to purge tolerant liberal voicews from tghe Catholic Church. The peaceful, no-ssruptive approach has not worked because our allies have been (are already)purge from the Catholic Church. The time has come for militant disruptive demonstrations and disobeidence out side our enemies places of worship!
Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:43 AM By Real_American
Those darn homosexuals! We can clearly characterize all of them by this vquack's message and completely ignore the one above it calling for a peaceful vigil.
But worse than that, vquack states that disruptive demonstrations should take place outside the 'enemies (sic) place of worship!' How dare they invoke their constitutional rights to assemble on the public property outside of a church in order to voice their dissent about a religious organization destroying their families. Geeze! What nerve those homosexuals have!
As both of the anonymous posters said, those homosexuals shouldn't feel persecuted as we take away their rights. After all, we treat all sinners the same by trying to legislate all Christian morality. We have successfully campaigned to outlaw divorce, adultery, working on the Sabbath, killing (even in wars and self-defense) lying, disrespecting our parents, and even the most important rule of morality, never coveting anything that our neighbor has, haven't we?
It would be hypocritical to outlaw only gay unions. As true Christian warriors we are called to outlaw all sin! That is why I have signed the petition to ban divorce in California (it still allows for an annulment.) We must protect Traditional Marriage, The Family, Jesus, God, and Christianity because the Lord Almighty and 2.2 billion Christians are unable to protect themselves against the wrath of angry homosexuals. End Christian persecution now!
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:32 AM By Terence Weldon
"The burden of proof is on you, since you are going against 10,000 years of human social convention".
Nonsense. The modern idea of marriage as one man, one woman based on romantic love, is a modern invention. History across the world has shown that there have been many different forms of marraige, including same sex marriage (legal in some periods in Rome, Greece, Egypt, Canaan, Mesopotamia, China, Japan, parts of Africa and the Americas among others); polygamy (many societies, including the Old Testament patriarchs); marriages arranged by parents; marraige by abduction of the "bride" (who in Crete would have been a young man, not a woman); and simple concubinage, without formal legal or church recognition.
Before claiming history has an argument against same sex marriage, check the facts. Even the Christian church, in both Eastern and Western branches, had formal rites for liturgical blessing of same sex unions, recognised clearly gay saints (Sergious & Bacchus, Poyeuct and Nearchos, among many others), and consecrated openly gay bishops (Paulinus of Nola and Virgilius Fortunatus both published frankly erotic love poetry, now included int he Penguin Book of Homosexual Verse; Ralph of tours was consecrated bishop in 1059, even though it was well known that he was not only openly gay, but flagrantly promiscuous. His lovers inlcuded his patron, the archbishop of Orleans, the former archbishop , and the king of France .)
It is time to call out NOM (together with its allies in the churches_ for what it really is - NAM :National organisation Against Marriage..
Before
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:54 AM By Ron
Thank you Mr. Robert Polzoni for posting the names of Bishops and Cardinals who are still brave enough to stand up for the sacrament of marriage. May God bless them all and I pray for their saftey daily. If the Obamanation continues upon the anti-Christian path it is on, brave men like these will be ,along with the rest of us , cast into prison if such words are spoken. God Bless
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:29 AM By St. Christopher
Police exist to keep order, within the framework of the Constitution. Bishop Cordileone should not hesitate to seek police to keep order, consistent with individual rights to protest and the like. And where are the signatures of America's bishops on the Manhattan Declaration? These events permit the public display of courage, a rare commodity among Catholic bishops. A few Bishop Tobins and killing of the unborn would greatly decrease, if not vanish. A few Bishop Cordileones and homosexual marriage will be seen for what it is and those supporting it will see that, although they may continue to do so, their choice is not a moral one (as least as defined by the Catholic Church). Do not waiver Bishop Cordileone. And, please continue to say the TLM and to advocate its use in each and every parish at least once on each and every Sunday in the Oakland Diocese. Good man.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:17 AM By Robert Lockwood
God bless our Bishop Cordileone. It is interesting, and sad, that the good Bishop is the only Bishiop in California to sign the declaration. Where is our Church unity?
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:50 AM By severed
MILLITANT Disruptive demonstrations??? So what your saying is that your going to fight physically for what you belive in. I hope your not out raged when the same tactics are used against you. Non-peacefull vigils are just going to stir violence and I have a hard time believing the LGBT community has the will to fight an agressive war. You will only turn people on the fence away from your cause and quite frankly will only encourage more GAY bashing. Good luck with your plan (Vquak).
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:54 AM By JLS
The new rainbow colored three dollar bill will sport a picture of the nation's head homosexual ... but who would that be? Or do they take turns?
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:26 AM By MargieReilly
As Our Lady has asked us in Medjugorje, please make your first prayers of the day for those who are far from God. Pray for the unbelievers, those who as yet, do not know the love of God.
So, as the wicked stand against us, let us take the opportunity to pray for their conversion. Time is short, my friends and the Kingdom is coming.
I have signed the Manhattan Declaration. Would any of the protestors like to join me at my parish? We welcomed the group that came to Our Lady of Assumption in Carmichael and spent time catechizing them on the basics of the faith. They came in roaring like lions and left peacefully like lost sheep.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:30 AM By From Revelation
"He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:01 AM By Talitha Kumi
Your real enemy is the father of lies. The boastful envious one. And the "time (that) has come" is the time to be ever prepared for the return of Truth Incarnate, Jesus the Christ. He will return in all the Glory and Might that is proper and fitting to the One True God. Be truly militant and fight the enemy of your soul which is sin-full-ness. Seek true peace.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:52 AM By Rich Peterson
The Bishop is correct.
Very simply, he is standing up, and supporting Catholic Teaching. I am with him, 1000%!
Whatever he asks me to do, I will support him, and my Catholic Church.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:22 AM By Elaine
Yet another verbal attack on an intelligent and doctrinally correct Bishop. When will the GLBT community learn that this kind of behavior is NOT endearing them to the heterosexuals that work and live with them? I urge all practicing Catholics to rally around the Bishops who signed the Manhattan Declaration in defense of our right to practice our religion.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:43 AM By The Truth Hurts
John Maguire, Grisha, MarkfromPA, These militant and disruptive homosexuals are attacking Bishop Cordileone. John Maguire, Will you defend this deplorable attack on the Catholic Church as vigorously as you defended the anti-Catholic agenda word "homophobic?" Yes, John Maguire these militant homosexuals would absolutely love you for defending their favorite word "Homophobic," as a "Psychological Tactic," in furthering their evil agenda. We are able to see the true character of the homosexual lobby. They are not interested in equality, they are only interested in destroying the One, True Voice that refuses to sanction their evil. John Maguire, will you be assisting this unruly attack with your trademark of selective silence? John, are they talking about you, Grisha and Markfrom PA when they arrogantly state, "This is a conscious effort to purge liberal voices from the Catholic Church?" Well John, Grisha and Markfrom PA, This is your opportunity to be purged and to state your complete loyalty to the Catholic Church or your complete loyalty to these slave-like minions of the father of lies, who are throwing this big evil temper tantrum. Just a quick reminder or FYI :Lukewarm comments will not be accepted! **Selective Silence** or **Lengthy Obscure Posts** that distract from a clear, concise response will be viewed as **lead astray attempts** to throw off the scent of Truth and as a support of evil. The readers of CCD do have to travel to Oakland to witness the deceptive tactics and methods employed by those who support this evil. The minions have their agenda assignments on many Catholic websites too! Keep up the Good Work CCD, you must be doing something very pleasing to God. The recognizable barnacles of confusion and error have attached themselves to cloud up the clarity of The Truthful Teachings of the Catholic Church.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:55 AM By Charles
I read a lot of anger in this article. Anger comes when one is not feeling accepted or affirmed. However, please take a look at the reasoning behind the Manhattan Declaration. If city laws are subject to state laws, and state laws are subject to federal laws, then it is only obvious that man's laws are subject to God's laws. Right? Can you really expect a man of faith such as this Bishop Cordileone, any religious leader or in general, any person of faith, to ignore God's eternal laws in favor of man's temporary laws? No! A person of faith has to obey God rather than man. For the Bishop to do otherwise is ludicrous. It will not matter how many worship services the gay community disrupts or how many protests they do, they will not change the heart and mind of people who worship and serve God. To date, there has been over 220,000 online signers to the Manhattan Declaration in just over one week, and the number is growing rapidly. I was one of the signers. I hope you will sign too.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:05 AM By Tom byrne
"Our enemies places of worship". I always knew sodomy was Satanic and this language proves it. We would have been spared much trouble this past generation if we had recognized that from the start of the gay rights (pervert perks) movement. The Church in the Bay Area dallied too long in the 1970s and 1980s attempting "cordiality" and "peaceful relations" with a movement that intended only its own destruction. The hate was always there, but at least it's no longer hidden.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:35 AM By Grisha
TTH: 1) "They" haven't done anything yet. One obscure blogger has proposed a picket line. Yawn! This isn't news. 2) Being disrespectful to a Catholic Bishop is in fact protected under the First Amendment just as Bishops and others have a right to voice their opinions about matters in the public square. 3) If someone disrupts a service etc. the Oakland Police will remove them quickly and quietly (well as quietly as possible.) They have a lot of experience w/ that kind of thing. If there is even a hint of violence, the FBI will get involved and scoop up the would be evildoers. I feel sorry for the CCD Asst. Editor who is assigned to constantly search the gay, pro-abortion and misc. leftist blogosphere for stories like this one. How boring it must be. Oh well, it pays the bills and I guess someone has to do it. PS: If anyone wants to read someone reasonable on the gay rights side, google "Chai Feldblum."
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:59 AM By betty
Terence Weldon, where do you get these "facts" and how come the rest of us never heard of them? and St. Christopher, I really appreciated that remark about courage being a rare commodity among bishops. I find it very discouraging to find that just when I was hoping and expecting for a strong statement they just seemed to close their mouths again and I ask Why?
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:02 PM By St. Christopher
"Terence Weldon": you correctly point out that history has seen many forms of marriage and sexual relationships. Some in the Catholic Church certainly sinned against their vows, again, without question. However, it is without question that what was instituted through the Jewish Faith and Catholic Christianity was the sanctity of a man-woman marital relationship. The fact of clergy having serial sex with women or men is irrelevant to the truth of marriage, as practiced in the Judeo-Catholic Christian heritage. Homosexual outrage at this fact, and of the complete immorality of their union -- whether sanctioned by the state, a church, or by some personal ritual -- is the true issue in these protests. Christ never said that "love" was all that was required to act in a moral way; sin was recognized and sinners were told to "go and avoid sin" in their further acts. Man has done many things in his history on this earth. The fact that slavery was once legal does not make its commission now licit. We only have words and actions by which to demonstrate to each other our beliefs. The NOM and the Manhattan Declaration do not create any new ground, but only re-state and re-commit adherents to well established beliefs and moral actions, and the avoidance of others. Protest as the law allows, as we must all "render unto Caesar," but the right to speak out in protest -- even by a majority -- does not hold the action opposed as wrong or as contrary to God's law. In fact, why fight the Church? Those opposed should go and find a new place that welcomes their beliefs.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:36 PM By louise
In a radio interview Professor Robie George said the Mormons were not invited to sign because they are not trinitarian based and for that reason the sponsors did not want to embarrass the Mormons.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:39 PM By Philippe
Can there be degradation as bad or equal to a man giving or taking in homosexual acts? Even bestiality isn't as degrading because only one actor possesess free will.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:04 PM By Rich
I just wanted to say I am sorely dissappointed by reading this article. If you disagree with the Bishop you could always call his office and ask to meet with him or write him a letter asking him to respond to your concerns about why he is taking the stance he takes on this issue or why the Church teaches what it does regarding homosexual behavior. The Bishop is not unreasonable and would probably meet with you or at least write you back. Also, why go disturb Catholics where they Worship? Do you really think disturbing a Catholic Mass is really going to get people to recognize your position? All it will do is make people mad and realize how unreasonable and rude and disrespectful you are toward there faith.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:27 PM By The Truth Hurts
Grisha, You have once again been found GUILTY as charged of a lukewarm non-responsive post. Don't feel sorry for the Assistant Editor of CCD. Someone special is earning their crown every day when they have to sift through your very transparent posts and yet still allow you the opportunity for conversion. Greater **love** hath no Assistant Editor than to humbly lay down his keen intellect for Truth on behalf of retrieving a willfully blind and arrogant sinner.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:17 PM By CJ
Do they now make swastikas in the color pink?
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:18 PM By Jeanie
It is clearly evident that the hate mongers and criminals are the gays, lesbians, and their sympathizers, and not those following true Catholic teaching. These souls are in grave danger of losing everlasting life in Heaven. God's written word has said it clearly over and over again; however they continue to persist in their defiance to Almighty God. These gays, lesbians, and their sympathizers are the fools. Their opinions, arguments, threats, and insults do not matter compared to God's Commandments, nor will they convince God to change His mind at the moment of their Final Judgement of their souls. Shake the dust from your shoes. Pray for them, but don't waste your time arguing with stupid. You can't win. Only many many prayers said and fasting of many of your meals for the conversion of their souls will invoke the Holy Ghost to open their eyes to see the Truth and the Light, to sorrowfully repent their sins in the Sacrament of Penance and to amend their lives.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:20 PM By Mark from PA
Thanks for your comments, Terence Weldon. God bless you man.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:22 PM By Dan
"Terence Weldon" has made some amusing comments of a delightfully unhistorical nature, so we will ask him to kindly supply us with chapter and verse to support his assertions. Yet this writer has illustrated a point which has been made many times in the past, namely that homosexuals, when they begin to practice their unspeakable perversions, finally in the end take of their senses. The claims Mr Weldon is making clearly indicate one who has a total disconnect not only with simple historical fact but with reality itself. Say a Hail Mary for this poor, wretched individual.
Equally depressing was the well-meaning writer who invokes the bogus "Our Lady Medjugorje" to help in this fight against the homosexualization of society. There will be no help coming from that quarter I'm afraid. With respect I ask this person to turn away from this Yugoslavian charade which has been deluding good people for nearly thirty years. This "Lady", whoever she is, is certainly not the same who actually did appear at LaSalette, Lourdes and Fatima. I tell this person with both love and conviction: stay clear of this diabolic deception.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:28 PM By Harv
Look at the list of bishops whom signed the Manhatten Declaration to date. I am proud of them. Other than Olmsted of Phoenix, there is not a another bishop from the southern US that signed the Declaration! I wonder why? Every US bishop should have signed it, and if necessary been willing to be a martyr if that were the consequences for their signatures. They are suppose to represent Christ, not be politicians. If they want to be politicians they should resign. I think there will be many opportunities to fill some legistlative positions at the next national election. Pray for these bishop's conversions to return to the true Roman Catholic Faith, and stand up for the Faith even if it means dying for the Faith.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 2:42 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to TTH: Your post is false. All my posts are SUPPORTIVE of Bishop Cordileone -- from his preference as to what his favorite book is to his Apostolic right to defend the liturgy against all attacks -- though (and let's be clear about this), I do think the CCD Editor exaggerates the dangers of such attacks and is wont to public yellow-journalistic exaggerations. Persecution-complexes, by the way, do not facilitate clear-headed assessments of real danger. ~ As for "homophobic aggression," OF COURSE it is a real phenomenon. Several weeks ago, the FBI released extensive documentation regarding homophobic aggression and its role in the motivation of violent personal attacks. As I've noted several times before on this website, I recognize that the term "homophobic" can be used to impugn those --not least myself -- who defend the heteronormative definition of marriage, but that fact does not gainsay the existence of homophobic aggression.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:19 PM By JLS
As God formed up the followers of Patriarchs Abraham and Moses, He made them enforce His law in all lands where they went. One of the things they did was delete false relationships, thus institutionalizing real marriage. Jesus then brought this institution up to the final standards which reflect the relationship between God and man. This is the reason why the bishops have jumped on this so strongly and clearly. The bizarre "marriage" movement is a direct attack on the supremacy of God over creation. It falls upon the bishops to fight this battle and put down the heathen.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:48 PM By WOODY GUIDRY
"MY COUNTRY, RIGHT OR WRONG" is an immoral stand and we may be called upon to resist an improper civil authority. It is unlikely that the Church will interfere with the proper sphere of the state, but in such an event we would be equally bound to support the state. That said, we should be able to rely on protection from those who just may possibly get carried away in trying to restrict our religious practices. There is a long controversy ahead and venom is being slobbered all over the place. May St. Christopher carry us safely through the boiling waters.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:14 PM By acard944
Way to go Bishop Cordileone! Have no fear for the Lord of the Universe and the Lord of History is on your side. Be faithful and stand up for the truth that God's version of marriage = 1 man + 1 women.
The homosexuals and lesbians have abandoned the yoke of the Lord and his law of love and resorted to perversity by defacing their human dignity by following this unnatural vice.
We must do our duty and fight for the truth, and pray for obstinate sinners who refuse to enter into the light and remain in darkness -- their eternal salvation is in jeopardy!
PS: I have signed the Manhattan Declaration. Today, I choose Christ and his gospel and reject the anti-gospel of militant homosexualism.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:54 PM By Bob R.
Here's some RCC morality for everyone: How many Catholics have said, “A priest is entitled to break a vow once in a while, after all they are only human.” Cardinal George gave us the best known public example of this type of exemption in this quote:
Cardinal George said, ”There is a difference between a moral monster like Geoghan,” who preys in serial fashion, and an individual who, ”perhaps under the influence of alcohol,” engages in inappropriate behavior with ”a 16- or 17-year-old young woman who returns his affections.” 16 or 17 year old females are minor children in this Country and it's a felony for an adult to have inappropriate behavior (sex) with them, Alcohol and returned affections are not a defense for this type of criminal behavior. If your 16 or 17 year old daughter had inappropriate behavior with a Priest (adult). Is Cardinal George's quote traditional Catholic teaching? He is a Cardinal after all.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:54 PM By JLS
The Pledge of Allegiance has a phrase, "one nation under God"; as soon as that phrase becomes hollow, there is no call then to support the nation. Although continuing to support the Second Amendment to the Constitution would indeed be called for, which is why it is part of the Bill of Rights.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:48 PM By simone_dubois
Thank you so much for this article. I signed this document as well. Anyone can add their name to the document at the Manhattan Declaration website. I signed in the 70,000's but the next day more than 190,000 had signed. today it's almost 230,00. Yea! This list will make it so much easier for me to contact these Bishops and encourage and support them. Thank you so very much.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:39 PM By Tom Harris
As a non-practicing 'gay' trying to be a celibate 'gay' Catholic now who actually grew up in the gay culture (I'm now 60), I know firsthand the torment and hatred that the gay community can unleash against people who disagree with the gay life style. While guys, having grown up in the gay life style myself since I was 17, I can tell you if I had to chose being a practicing gay man and being a practicing 'gay' celibate Catholic, I'd chose( as I have these past few years) being a practicing Catholic. Heaven I sense is better than hell, which is where I'd be in a few years in all reality if I continued on the road of sinning with its antecedent feelings of guilt, remorse and dealing with my conscience. Every gay man has these terrible feeling if they haven’t killed their conscience, but chose to ignore them or brush them off as just a bad day. Wrong. Guess again guys.
As a gay man, I have always been struck at how the most intolerance people in society are in reality other gay men. They hate anything that stands up to them. They hate even me because I'm a practicing 'gay' Catholic who sides with the Church on so-called gay marriage, and they hate the Church for telling the truth of their promiscuous man to man Craigslist pornographic sex life style, which I know all too well. I did it guys. As for me and hundreds of thousands more like me, I stand with the Church and say to hell with the gay life style that is sickening, and a sex felled lonely existence of guilt, remorse and unabated conscience torment. Good for you fellow Catholics and Church clergy. Fight the good fight. We will win in the end. We have the redeeming Jesus. They have the father of lies as their leader. We already won the battle!
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:05 PM By Anne T.
Some tried this with Cardinal O'Connor, but it only angered the nation, and they lost big time.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:24 PM By Ron
God Bless Bishop Salvatore Cordileone! I think the other Bay Area Bishops are too busy watching reruns of Brokeback Mountain.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:35 PM By Dan
"The modern idea of marriage as one man, one woman based on romantic love, is a modern invention. History across the world has shown that there have been many different forms of marraige, including same sex marriage (legal in some periods in Rome, Greece, Egypt, Canaan, Mesopotamia, China, Japan, parts of Africa and the Americas among others); polygamy (many societies, including the Old Testament patriarchs); marriages arranged by parents; marraige by abduction of the "bride" (who in Crete would have been a young man, not a woman); and simple concubinage, without formal legal or church recognition." Terrence, this is the other Dan, not the one who posted at 2:22. That there have been other forms of marriage is undoubtedly true. But with the 2:22 Dan, I think as far as the Christian faith goes, you ought to check your facts. Liturgical rights for same sex-unions? I suppose in the Episocpal church and a few others that might exist today, but this is a novelty. And from the Roman Calendar of saints, how would you know if any were gay? True, there have been corrupt bishops -- corrupt popes-- in a few cases. The 11th century is famous for them -- I recall reading of a certain Princess Marouzia and family helping to make and unmake popes. This doesn't mean the Christian faith changes because of a bad example here and there. Your argument is therefore specious. What is God's intention for marriage--not--what have we made of it??
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:42 PM By MoonChild
I'm sorry that you feel offended that Bishop Cordileone is fighting for the rights of Catholics to believe & practice what our faith, & nature, tells us is correct. I'm sorry that you feel so strongly about this that you had to push your beliefs on a Catholic website, which, if it is a Catholic website, would support the position of the Church on this topic. The Catholic Church knows that two men can't make a baby, & neither can two women, so gay marriage is out of the question, since the main purpose of marriage is for procreation & the advancement of the human race.
Furthermore marriage is a Sacrament, & to force the Church to place the blessing of the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony on a relationship that we cannot condone for religious & scientific reasons is discrimination against us. If gay marriage had been enacted, then children would have had to be forced to learn that two men or two women can make a baby, when that is scientifically impossible. It would have forced us to not preach what The Bible preaches.
Gay people DO have rights as people, but to force us to accept something that is scientifically impossible, nature is against, & our religion has been against since time immemorial (meaning since the beginning of time, before Christ walked among us), is discrimination against us. Please recognize that we are not discriminating against you, because we are not taking away your basic rights to live & be people. However, we are taking away your right to skew our religion for your own personal gain, simply because you want to play God & make nature change & have sperm fertilize sperm & an egg fertilize another egg, changing what we have always believed, & will always believe.
I'll pray for you. God Bless Bishop Cordileone for standing against discrimination of Christians!
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:25 PM By Tammie
God bless these bishops for standing up for the truth of mankinds creator. I pray that more will have the courage to do the same.
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Posted Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:08 PM By Anne T.
I would, of course, back the bishop up if the Church or Blessed Sacrament were vandalized or desecrated if he were to charge someone with a hate crime.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:39 AM By Peter
Philippe - So what you're saying is that forcefully raping a small dog against it's will is "less degrading" than two men in a consensual monogamous relationship? That's Catholicism? That's Christianity? Nice.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:43 AM By Peter
WOODY GUIDRY - No one - including the state - is trying to restrict religious practices. It is the institutionalized bigotry disguised as religious freedom that is coming into question.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:14 AM By Margaret
Good for Bishop Cordileone! I can't believe Archbishop Dolan signed this document. In Milwaukee he allowed one of his priests to write and speak against an ammendment defining marriage as between a man and a women. He also allowed priests living openly with other men to function. A parish youth minsiter was on the national Board of Dignity. He was very "gay friendly!"
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:01 AM By MarkF
Tom Harris, I'm in that same boat. I used to be all into the gay philosophy and life...it was the only life I knew. I didn't feel a lot of (or any) remorse over it at the time, and I don't obsess over it now. Anyways, I don't want to get into that because I have a question for you. One of my main points that I make that I get pitiful little support of is that I contend that the "gay" life is one big myth. The myth is that gay life is pretty much like heterosexual life. I contend that gay people will NEVER be honest about what really goes on. I can boil it down to three sayings. Gay life is either massively promiscuous, massively kinky or massively lonely. It AIN'T all about "stable, loving monogamous couples. Far from it. And it gets worse the more you're into it. Gay people have successfully created a sympathetic mythology of normality and victimization. The real victims are people like us who were sold a bill of goods and lured into something that is thrilling but dangerous. Please tell me what you think, OK?
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM By Sheila
Thank God that there are still TRUE shepherds out there to lead the people. The ACT of homosexuality is a sin. Laws and protests are not going to change this truth. These brave bishops have to answer to God not people at the end of their lives. It is their duty to point out sin so people can amend their lives and save their souls. If someone was going to drink poison I hope you would stop them. Same with people who choose to live in the homosexual lifestyle. You should be trying to save their souls NOT condoning what they do to be politically correct. No one hates gay people and if they do they would be going against their faith but to okay a sinful lifestyle is not truly loving your neighbor if you know that their soul is in danger.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:50 AM By The Truth Hurts
John Maguire, In response to your selective FBI report post on Dec.1 You claim that persecution complexes do not facilitate clear-headed assessments of real danger. If this is true, why did you display a persecution complex by selectively choosing to report only about the FBI's report about "homophobic" aggression? John, why are you even the least bit critical of CCD's report on these hatefully militant homosexuals? Why have you been selectively silent when Grisha and Markfrom PA post at least 10 exaggerated posts per week on some vague horror story in Panama towards homosexuals that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic? Why don't you accuse Markfrom PA or Grisha of the same type of persecution complex postings that exaggerate? John, I think that you should praise the Editor of CCD today for rightfully informing the readers about the FBI's report that has your homosexual FBI report victims actually being the cruel perpetrators of an increase in hate crimes? Was that a little selective slip up? John, we're you the one who was not actually facilitating clear-headed assessments of the real danger because of a persecution complex? The reason I am asking John is that it is perfectly clear that even though you distract some people from your agenda by throwing the tiny little bone of "I agree with the Bishop's book preference" or **your**support for Bishop Cordileon's Apostolic right to defend attacks against the liturgy, your lopsided imbalance of criticisms and selective silence, speaks VOLUMES! Don't criticize the Church Militant with your SAM aka "Selective And Misleading " posts. Remember John that CCD and clear-headed people can see the danger and the reason for your selective criticism . This kind of dangerous confusion without clear-cut courage or direction has wreaked havoc in the Church. The Saints rooted out sin. They did not hide it or ignore it because of their own personal flaws.They did not criticize others for trying to root sin out either.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:16 AM By Tim
The person or organization proposing "disruption of services" should be no less than put on notice by civil law enforcement authorities that he/they will be prosecuted to the fullest. I won't hold my breath waiting for this to happen, though.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:26 AM By Donna
You go Good Bishops!!! You're like a breath of fresh air blowing in over a disgustingly foul and evil issue. God bless you!!!
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:54 AM By Luis
We are encouraged by the Manhattan Declaration and having so many leaders produce it and having more than 250,000 signers since it was put out.
But the whole thing is very simple: Homosexuals and homosexuality are sterile, with all of the implications of sterility applicable to homosexuality, homosexuals, homosexualism, starting with they are incapable of producing anything. Male homosexuals do not have ovaries, as much as they would love to have them, and they cannot reproduce, while female homosexuals do not have testes, as much as they might want them, so they cannot reproduce.
As to those who try to nullify the above by saying that heterosexuals also suffer from sterility, first, that is an act of God, or evolution, if your prefer, and we're sure you do, and second, YOU worry about that situation and we will continue to work to eliminate the problems that homosexuals and homosexuals cause.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 11:45 AM By Bonner
Always amazed at how many people quote Thomas Jefferson's letter on the "separation of church and state," (Danbury Baptist Association in 1802) but claim it's in the Constitution; which it's not.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:09 PM By Peter Petras
It's too little too late to run to the rescue of our bishops, or rather, what remains of true Catholic Bishops in North America. Our bishops have ordained a staggering number of gay men since Vatican II -- 1/3 of our priests here in the States and Canada are gay -- a conservative fraction at best. In turn we have witnessed an "ephibophilia" sex abuse crisis, not pedophilia, which statistically estimates that 82 percent of our sex abuse cases involve boys around the age of puberty. This is a GAY problem the bishops have brought down on upon the Church. My friends, be discerning in what kind of bishops you are supporting. For now, let our wimpy bishops reap what they have sown -- spiritual cancer. May this disease soon be cut out of the Church.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:37 PM By Brenda
Why don't we have bishop like Bishop Cordileone in Atlanta, GA? Oh NO......we have that Archbishop Wilton Gregory who is such a let down!!! He didn't support the Cardinals, Archbishops, and Bishops who had the courage to stand up for the Church's stand against abortion. So, am I surprised that he has not signed the Manhattan Declaration? No, but I hope he is given a clerical job somewhere soon to finish out his years, because as long as it is a black president I guess Obama gets Gregory's support even if by silence. I am so sick of race, and not what is right dominating Atlanta's diocese!! Can we have a "Replace Archbishop Gregory Rally" in Atlanta? "We want a pro-life, pro-traditional family, pro-all races not just blacks Archbishop!!!" Thank you holy men who do what is right!!
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:59 PM By John F. Maguire+
TTH: I am happy to talk about any aspect of the FBI report you like. Nothing selective about my mentioning a point, namely, whether homophobic aggression exists, a point that had been left unresolved by -- primarily if not exclusively -- your own posts. As for other phobias, I've already raised the issue of Christophobia in a prior post. Ecclesiophobia is a function of Christophobia, is it not?
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:59 PM By Jerry Eugene
Tom Harris and Mark F it is good to see you both have seen God's light and departed from the evil lifestyle of homosexuality. It is good that you have come out of the closet revealing all those truths here before this audience. We can only pray that your testimonies will help those naive that are being tempted into believing they are homosexuals and pressured to participate in such a decadent and death-to-their-souls lifestyle will awaken them to stop from entering the trap around them. We can only pray that your testimonies will find similar realizations in practicing homosexuals so they will turn away from this evil just like you did. Satan spawns homosexuality, it is a evil lifestyle and not created by our loving God. God does not create evil, nor does He speak out of both sides of His mouth at the same time. All men have male friends, and all women have female friends that is only natural, and there can be a plutonic love of souls. God has created us male and female for procreation, that is the natural law and we are to be sexually and mentally attracted males to females and vice versa. Heterosexual relationships are to remain holy and chaste, waiting until after marriage bonds to share in procreation love. Those heterosexuals that are weak and commit fornication will be justly punished for their sins too. People need to learn to love God and put Him first before all else. To love Him so much they never ever want to hurt and offend Him and are always on their guard. Holiness and pleasing God leads to Heaven; whereas sin leads to hell. This is an eternal truth, a truth no one should ever want to take the risk. Fortunately God is merciful in Confession. We need to pray for all souls as so many have lost their faith and don't seem to care. Pray your rosaries daily that the scales blocking realization of the grave evils of homosexuality and fornication will be removed from our eyes and that we will all see the Light of God before it is to late.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:01 PM By Mark from PA
Sheila, you state, "No one hates gay people." I wonder if you can find one gay person that agrees with that. You need to read some of the posts here. I think calling people sodomites, telling them that they are demonic, calling them heretics, and telling them they should leave the Church, is pretty hateful. I am certainly not naive, I know that lots of people hate gays and a small number (nobody here I would hope) would do them physical harm. I think years ago I may have believed that no Catholics hated gay people but I don't believe that any more.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:03 PM By Mike
Why call it Traditional Marriage? We should call it what is is .....Real Marriage or Natural Marriage! I am tired of a small minority of truly good people forcing their lifestyle choices on us. Live and let live and God will be the ultimate Judge, I don't condemn or berate anyone for their sexuality. I have many gay family and gay friends whom I love but I do not support nor do I agree with their lifestyles.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:57 PM By JLS
Peter, you've contradicted yourself.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:02 PM By MarkF
Tom Harris, I would love to talk to you more away from this site if you wish. Are you still out there?
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:20 PM By MarkF
Jerry Eugene, while I appreciate your sentiment, I'd have to say that you focus is too narrow. Homosexuality and especially the philosophy of homosexuality is a symptom of a problem. It is not a root cause of anything for the most part. The problem is the breakdown of family...divorce, cohabitation without marriage, single parenting, artificial birth control...and all of this in turn is caused by man's rejection of God. I think that you've placed too much of an emphasis on homosexuality. It is a topic that evokes a lot of emotion. But really, it's a sin in the same way that other things are sins too. I suspect that it is a worse sin than fornication but the Church does not have an official position on this. The issue is also surrounded by a certain mystique - a dark mystique that causes many to be convinced that it is the only sin, and is somehow worse. This makes it easy to categorize and separate people based on this sin, and we have to admit that this is wrong. In fact, this hypocrisy is in itself used as a justification for people to condone the behavior. Somehow we've got to get past simple, rote condemnations without falling into permissiveness. Perhaps the old way of doing things was just to shout NO at people, and perhaps society has outgrown this. What we're lacking now is a way of warning of the dangers of sin without being rigid, unsympathetic or cold. This is the problem to which Pope Benedict has devoted so much of his time.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 7:42 PM By MarkF
Sheila, you're being lured into a pointless discussion here. Don't take the bait. I know the temptation that's there. You see total confusion and provocative statements that are meant to press your buttons. You see statements that are so obviously factually wrong that you think it will be easy to correct things. Don't fall for it! It's a trap. What you'll end up doing if you respond is like blowing on a child's windmill. It will go round and round in circles but will go nowhere. And you'll end up out of breath. So step back, let your silence speak for you and leave it in God's hands.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:12 PM By JLS
Mike, God works through people, and His people are making His will known by any means He directs them to use.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:21 PM By Leonard
Homosexual lifestyle (behavior) is perverted behavior. Love the sinner and hate the sin. AMEN
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:12 PM By LMJ
Enough with the word games from some of these activist groups. Gay marriage (or any marriage) is not a civil right. People who are against it are not generally doing so out of hate. Black people are on to the scam of groups trying to compare gay marriage with black civil rights...they aren't buying it nor am I.
The bottom line is that gays can't marry. It says right in the creation account in Genesis that man and woman are created complementary...marriage was instituted by God when He made humans. We have no right as a society to change divine law...in fact we cannot do so. Even if gay marriage was legal in all 50 states it would still be invalid in reality.
Sorry my homosexual brethren, but no amount of protesting, complaining, brow-beating, threatening, fighting, etc can change the fact that the behavior is immoral. It is an immutable moral law and pretending that it is not so does not change that fact. Believe me i've tried to deceive myself into believing certain wrong behaviors aren't immoral in the past as well but it doesn't work. Better to face reality and move on from there.
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Posted Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:47 PM By sheila
Mark, yes you are probably right in saying that some people hate gay people but what I said is that if you TRULY follow your faith than to hate anyone is a sin. As the saying goes, "love the sinner hate the sin". That is the approach that Catholics should take. If you are a good Catholic than you should care enough about your neighbor by caring about their souls. Telling someone who is endangering their soul that it is alright to continue on in this sinful lifestyle because you want to be politically correct is not only confusing but makes you guilty as well for not caring enough to help them so they can amend their lives. Remaining indifferent is the easy way out. Speaking up and telling the truth might save a soul just like John the Baptist did. It may have cost him his head but at least he was able to stand before God knowing he served God and not man in the end.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:59 AM By Anita
The Catholic bishops have every right to express what they believe (which is what the teachings of Jesus are) and express those beliefs publically. Everyone else of other persuasions wants to be able to express themselves without harassment. Why not Catholic people and their leadership also?
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:43 AM By Sally
I can't believe how ignorant you are, and being supposedly Catholic! If you're Catholic, pick up the cathechism, and study the Church's teachings. You'll quickly learn that the bishops mentioned are following God's teachings on marriage. Shame on you for so foolishly following worldly teachings and turning your back on God and His Church. Such arrogance and foolishness! I pray you'll humble yourselves and apologize for this mockery. You need to realize people who oppose gay "marriage" are not antigay; they want people to turn from a sinful, unhealthy lifestyle. We are all a little more than weary of a small group of well-funded political hacks shoving their agenda down our throats. We want the best for everyone--including them, and that starts with praying they follow God and not the world. Please wake up people--are you going to follow the world, or the Lord??
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:52 AM By L.
Most people have either forgotten or never learned that in regard t o the "separation of church and state," our forefathers put this into our foundations NOT to protect the government, but to protect the Church and religion. Everything is upside-down now. God and His laws are far more important than governmental so-called laws. Pelosi and obama and frank and all the other socialists do NOT rule over God and His laws. End of story whether you like it or not.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:17 AM By 1abqdad
The author of this article, "gaybuzz", could NOT be MORE WRONG with his classification of the Manhattan Declaration as an "anti-gay manifesto", as it is certainly NOT! ALL of the intelligent and reasonable gays agree with the bishops! Just because a VERY FEW radicals want publicity is NOT a reason to reject God's requirements for the sacrament of matrimony. I WILL contact the bishop and his supporters to SUPPORT the declaration and will sign the declaration itself. MOST gays do NOT want to create division or conflict... They want peace and harmony and to comply with God's desires for their lives. They want equal "civil" rights, which is reasonable. For the few, militant gays to demand that God change His requirements for a sacrament just to promote their extremist, blasphemous beliefs is utter nonsense.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:30 AM By Peter
JLS - I'm only contradicting myself if religious practices = institutionalized bigotry . . . I contend that such is not the case.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:34 AM By Peter
Luis - Thanks for the favor. And while you're at it, please also continue to work to eliminate the problems that racial minorities cause.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 6:58 AM By Michael
Mr. Polzoni, Does stirring up acts of pure hate against others, such as disrupting Catholic services seem easy to you? Why don't you try that with Islamic services?............. COWARD!!!
I am a Practicing Catholic, a Vietnam Vet, and a former Police Officer, if anyone comes into my church to disrupt services do not expect to be welcomed. I pray all violence can be avioded, but with this fine line I cannot promise someone will not have to spend the rest of their life wondering why they tried what you promote. Not to mention where they may spend eternity. May God have Mercy on you and them.
I call on all Vietnam Veterans who put their lives on the line for America to do it again if need be, to protect those who honor God and Country. And may Our Lord Bless all those who strive to keep the peace.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:13 AM By MarkF
Sheila, please read my post of Dec. 2, 7:42 PM before you waste any more of your time. Trust me on this - trust all of us on this - we spent over a year doing the same thing you're trying to do here and nothing was accomplished other than blowing on a windmill. You are being set up in a sly, crafty, infuriating way to be sucked into something that has no end, other than you getting mad. Resist with all your heart the desire to set the record straight, help someone, defend the Church or whatever good it seems that you're doing. What you're dealing with a whirlpool that only knows how to suck you in. The answer, as we've all found here is silence, silence, silence, no matter how hard it is.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:22 AM By Mark from PA
Sheila, you are right in that if you truly follow your faith then to hate anyone is a sin. The problem with "love the sinner, hate the sin" is that most of the people that say this don't love a particular class of sinners. Calling people names and considering them less than fully human is not a sign of love. Let's face it, we are all sinners. But God loves us all in spite of our faults and failings. When another person considers your orientation to be a sin, when you are considered defective, you know that that person does not love you or even like you. The good news is that people in our country are becoming more tolerant and accepting.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:21 AM By Michael
Look, I have 2 friends that are gay. They are archery buddies and they like my wife as well. However, they also know that while I am their friend I do not agree with their lifestyle and why. The issue is that God desires that no one sends themselves to hell, but that all will convert and accept His gift of salvation, His act of love for all on the Cross.
As a Catholic I cannot condone things like abortion, embryonic stemcell research, or samesex unions, etc. simply because of the "intrinsic" evil that exists. Just because someone one day comes up with the idea that they should be able to have their sexual lifestyle with their pets recognized and be able to reap state or Gov.taxpayer benefits doesn't mean that everyone should go blindly along with that.
Mortally sinning against nature itself and the very life that is given us by God will cost one their eternal life. The unrepented sinner of these ideals is telling Our Lord that they are not interested in being in Heaven and His presence or promise for eternity, so because of the free-will He gave them they are allowed to spend eternity with the dammed. Truly the place of no reprieve.
As I said before, those that dabble in this intrinsic sinfulnes and decide to disrupt the Holy Mass will find I will be one of those that will defend Jesus in the Eucharist, the Priest, and those who are there to worship with my life until death if need be, and I know of many who would do the same. I do NOT take this lightly.
Only COWARDS would do something as this, just like the cowards that destroy innocent life in it's most defenseless state in the first place. So PLEASE come to my church and disrupt the Holy Mass, I'm getting more and more tired of this nation's repugnant idealists who have abandoned God.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:38 PM By Brother Sebastian
Mark F, Jerry's focus on homosexuality was not to narrow and it's not a symptom of a problem. Satan is behind it. I agree that all those problems you mentioned are a rejection of God's Teachings and His Sacraments. Those that stray and reject God open themselves up to Satan and all his serpents, whether one believes in them or not. Some liberal catholics, even clergy! dismiss Satan, his demons, and hell as fanatasy contrary to what the Holy Bible says. They are cafeteria catholics and hypocrits. Yes as seen by gay and lesbian threats, gay-pride parades, and upset parents, homosexuality is a very emotional issue. Those for homosexuality are trying to impose and force it upon those whom oppose it. Homosexuals deceive to get their way by making opposers fearful of raising their protests against it by expanding the definition of hate crimes laws. They also deceptively and sinisterly work on the children in the schools to accept their sinful lifestyles and erasing what their parents and Catholic Church have taught them that homosexuality and fornication is wrong. Yes it is going to raise anger, anger that is kept under wraps by parents in fear of being labeled as hate mongers. I don't understand your comment the "hypocrisy is in itself used as a justification for people to condone the behavior". I hope parents teach their children right from wrong and the reasons when the time is right. (Parents, preserve their innocence as long as possible!) Gentleness in correcting sinners is the first step; however when gentleness is met with defiance by homosexuals, then we must follow St Paul's many written examples in his Epistles take a firm stand and correct the sinning homosexuals, for they are gravely offending God. We show those sinners a greater love and charity than those whom condone and make excuses for their sinful behavior. In the end God will judge all of us, those whom committed the homosexual sins and those whom didn't correct them. God Bless You.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:46 PM By Grisha
A very devout and traditional Catholic just happened to write me yesterday " A lot of people like to say "Hate the sin, love the sinner," but it usually means, "Denounce the sin vociferously at every possible opportunity, and
love the sinner at arm's length." I couldn't have said it any better.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:49 PM By Peter
Bravo, Michael. Great performance.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:51 PM By MarkF
Brother Michael, you didn't touch on my main point which is that homosexuality is just the latest manifestation of a larger problem and as such cannot be dealt with on its own. The larger problem is our hedonist society, materialism, the breakdown of the family and man's rejection of God. All of these things had to happen first before we had a mass homosexual movement. What don't you understand about how our hypocrisy can be used as a justification for people condoning homosexuality? It's simple. When Christians focus on homosexuality but are silent about contraception, cohabitation, divorce, etc., that silence - that hypocrisy - is used as a wedge for the promotion of homosexuality. Also, I fully agree that the evil is behind all of this, and that homosexuality is a particularly dangerous sin. The question is, what do we do about it? Fulminating about it and only it is NOT working. We have to be for something, not just against something. My gut tells me that we're going to have to win this back one by one, one soul at a time, as each person finds the dead end to hedonism and life without God. But, we have GOT to get the schools and media back on track and to stop promoting all this, while demonizing Christianity.
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Posted Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:55 PM By MarkF
Grisha, I agree with what you say to some extent. But what's the solution. Your preferred situation seems to border on what I'd call a pro-choice position. You see things that are wrong but feel inhibited from doing anything about it, lest someone get offended. You also seem to disallow the thousands of people who have simply and quietly said that they are opposed to what's going on in society, only to be demonized and attacked by the media and by secular elitists. My question to you then is, what should we be doing? Nothing? Pray but keep our mouths shut?
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Posted Friday, December 04, 2009 7:29 AM By Michael
Why, thank you Peter. And Yeah, it might have been somewhat of a performance. Probably more than I needed to say. I can get wordy. However, in witnessing some friends die, barely escaping myself, and feeling severly offended by those who even toss around the idea of coming in and "disrupting" the Mass, as they say, I feel is pushing me to contemplate the sanctity of life as never before.
So when I contemplate life and death for myself, and in what I may be able to offer for others in a world I no longer care to be part of, I KNOW my limitations, do you know yours,..... my smug friend.
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Posted Friday, December 04, 2009 8:09 AM By Michael
To all, this, Peter, has made me realize one thing, and that is maybe what I wrote was more a performance, (in the way I was expressing myself), Than what I was trying to accomplish. And that is in a way I'm just trying to drum up a type of physical support, and to be a safety net or a shield for those in the Church if ever needed. I'm tyring to appeal to those out there who have put their very lives on the line in war, any war, and in Law Enforcement where we know what might be expected of us in a world ruled by satanic forces. People may need us, and I believe horrible things are on the immediate horizon. I also believe our past experiences can be a blessing for many. After all, St. Michael is our Commander 'n Chief. (Not Pres. Obama, thank God.......literally).
As we are to turn the other cheek, I also believe Our Dear Lord has given a different heart to some of us, in that if physical violence errupts, He has also given us the tools to be a shield of protection for many. As Jesus and His Mother have told us, "Do not be afraid".
Oh, and sorry for the "Smug" comment Peter.
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Posted Friday, December 04, 2009 8:20 AM By Luis D
Bishop Cordileone I want you to know that you are a true servant to the Lord. Keep up your great teachings and stay strong in our fight for our Catholic Church. May God continue to bless you. ..Luis
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Posted Friday, December 04, 2009 10:21 AM By Ski Ven
So, Peter, are you here to cast aspersions against the ability of faithful Catholics to defend themselves? I have never seen any militant homosexualists attempt to disrupt a Mass that I was attending. I don't think y'all are man enough to attempt to such an undertaking, tough guy.
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Posted Friday, December 04, 2009 5:44 PM By Grisha
Mark F: I don't know about anyone else but all I can do is share with others want the Good News of the Lord as preached by the Catholic Church has done for me and those I love. I can and do suggest to fallen away Catholics to come to mass (or any other event at a c church) and hope they get re acquainted and non-Catholics to join me at mass. I've had s some successes and non (not yet) successes. If others want to be the Bedroom Patrol, they can have at it. Maybe they can bring people (back) to the Church that way. In the meantime I'll keep doing what I do, prayerfully hoping for the best.
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Posted Sunday, December 06, 2009 12:30 PM By Talitha Kumi
Michael, Thank you for your willingness to truly defend our Catholic worship; Eucharist, Priest and parishiners.This is not a performance in my opinion but an earnest knowing of who you are and where you stand. I am overwhelmed with joy to have manly, heroic men as fellow catholics. I 'm praying St. Michael prayer right now!
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Posted Monday, December 07, 2009 7:46 AM By JLS
Grisha, you're confusing your concept of "bedroom patrol" with truth patrol. You perpetuate the lie that what goes on in the bedroom stays in the bedroom. In truth what goes on in the bedroom blooms in the midday sun, namely babies. Those that block this dynamic also have their supposed secret actions bloom in the midday sun, and it is not babies but degradation in various appearances.
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Posted Monday, December 07, 2009 10:47 AM By MarkF
Grisha, I think I agree with how you handle evangelization. I too don't go around yelling at people for their sexual behavior because if I did, I'd have no time left to eat, breathe or work. But I am curious, how do you handle a direct question from someone who's cohabitating before marriage, or is using contraception or is a practicing homosexual? If any of these people asked you if they are in a state of grace and are able to receive communion, how would you answer that? Or to make it less personal to them, how would you answer them if they asked you the nature of these actions? What I'm getting it is that while I really respect your wisdom in not yelling at people over the kind of conduct that is all around us now, I wonder if underneath that all is some sort of lack of certainty that borders on relativism? Is there some point where you will speak up?
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Posted Monday, December 07, 2009 4:33 PM By Grisha
Mark F: Direct questions rarely come up. Most people know the teaching of the Catholic Church on these matters. On the occasions when they do, I summarize our beliefs essentially only "stright sex"between married men and women (to each other that is) and open to the transmission of life. If someone has interest byond that, I suggest they see a priest. Certainly I'm not going to advise someone about their state of grace and if they should receive communion. Doing so would be, to my mind, akin to practicing law or medicine without a license. You know, most people who want to talk with me about Catholicism arn't so interested in the "pelvic issues," but rather questions like grace, authority, the Assumption, the roles of the saints and how the child molestaion crisis was so mishandled.
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Posted Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:33 AM By MarkF
Grisha, sounds good to me! I've found that too, that people ask about those sorts of questions. You sound cool to me. I don't see why you get attacked on here, if my endorsement means anything, lol. My guess is that it is how we handle our own lives and how we evangelize to the real, 3-D people we know matters a whole heck of lot more than anything said on here.
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Posted Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:24 PM By Luis
Peter said: Luis - Thanks for the favor. And while you're at it, please also continue to work to eliminate the problems that racial minorities cause.
And we answer: Peter, you, or someone else, can worry about the problems that racial minorities cause and we will continue to work on the problems that homosexuals cause, probably the single most devastating problem the U.S. faces now, other than Obama, that is. We don't have time or resources to work on every problem, perceived or real.
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Posted Tuesday, December 08, 2009 9:35 PM By nancy chambers
Thank God for the people who defend our Catholic Church teachings. I will continue to do my share in our community. God's Blessings
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