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Published: March 2, 2009
“Beautiful job of defending homosexuality”
Student actors from Catholic high school will perform ‘gay-friendly’ play at ‘gay-friendly’ San Francisco parish
Student actors from Sacred Heart Preparatory School in Atherton will perform a play based on the controversial book The God Box at Most Holy Redeemer parish in San Francisco on Sunday afternoon, March 8. The play, according to the March 1 parish bulletin of Most Holy Redeemer, “explores the subject of homosexuality within a Christian, adolescent context.”
 Entitled “Be Still and Know,” the play was first performed on Jan. 30 at the Campbell Theatre for Performing arts on the Sacred Heart Campus. “The play, adapted by SHP Drama Director John Loschmann from the novel The God Box by Alex Sanchez, explores the Bible’s view on homosexuality and the struggle adolescents have with their sexual identity and their identity as Christians,” said a Sacred Heart news release about the play.
Sacred Heart Preparatory School was founded in 1898 by the sisters of the Society of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and today describes itself as “a Roman Catholic, independent, coed, college preparatory day school.” Yearly tuition is $28,635.
The God Box, published in 2007, won a Lambda Literary Award from the Lambda Literary Foundation, “the country's leading organization for LGBT writers and readers,” according to the group’s web site.
Among those who have praised the The God Box is Episcopalian Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, who said of the book, "Alex Sanchez evokes the crucifying experience of adolescents wrestling with their sexual identity and their identity as Christians. He does a remarkably faithful job of opening up long-abused biblical passages often used as proof texts to denigrate homosexuality. This book is a gift not just to teenagers, but to those who love and work with them."
Writing on her personal blog “The thoughts of a teenage girl” on Dec. 15, 2008, a young woman who says she plays “Angie, who is the lead character’s girlfriend,” and had just returned from her first rehearsal of “Be Still and Know,” had this to say of the play: “With the passing of Prop 8, I think that California needs a nice dose of humanity. The show does a beautiful job of defending homosexuality with the bible, the very thing most commonly used to condemn it, including Leviticus 18:22 (‘Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination’), to which Carlos (Manuel) Cordero, and openly gay, Christian teen in the play, responds, ‘The Bible also say that eating shellfish is an abomination… Does anyone who eats shrimp commit a lesser crime than homosexuality?’ The show is smart, and powerful, and will cause many people to reconsider their beliefs about homosexuality.”
But the young writer also acknowledged that the play had provoked disapproval by some at her school: “In my nice little Sacred Heart high school, though in one of the most liberal places in the world, San Francisco, this show is causing a remarkable amount of controversy… Parents are protesting it, teachers are confused by it, and student are just avoiding the topic all together.”
“Be Still and Know” has also captured attention in the Catholic blogosphere. Gibbons Cooney, a San Francisco resident and Catholic activist writing on “A Shepherd’s Voice,” the blog of outspoken priest Fr. John Malloy, asks some salient questions about the play: “Is the content of the play in agreement with Church teaching on homosexuality? Who decided on having this play produced at Sacred Heart of Atherton? Has the production of this play at Sacred Heart of Atherton been approved by the Archdiocese? Has the production of this play at Most Holy Redeemer been approved by the Archdiocese? Why is this play being performed at Most Holy Redeemer at all? The novel The God Box from which the play is adapted, is targeted at an adolescent audience... Finally, has anyone at the Archdiocese read The God Box? Or even visited the website of Alex Sanchez, the book’s author?”
Most Holy Redeemer, located in San Francisco’s Castro District, has repeatedly made news over the years for its homosexual-friendly activities: it is the parish where Archbishop George Niederauer gave Communion to two transvestites dressed as nuns in 2007 (the archbishop later apologized), the parish where the same group of transvestite “nuns” – the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence – once held bingo games to raise money until they were kicked out on orders of the chancery in 2006, and the parish that until recently regularly sent a contingent to each year’s San Francisco “gay pride” parade. In fact, the parish is where the so-called “rainbow flag,” the banner of the homosexual-rights movement, was invented, according Jesuit Fr. Donal Godfrey, director of ministry at the University of San Francisco.
“The now decades-long tolerance of the celebration of homosexuality at MHR is bearing fruit: today, among other things, they have openly same-sex ‘married’ lectors, acolytes, and Eucharistic ministers serving at Mass,” noted Cooney. “And now, with their allies in Catholic High Schools, they are actively seeking to corrupt the faith of our Catholic young people. This is not about our same-sex attracted brothers and sisters in the Roman Catholic Church, striving, as do we all, to live a Christian life. What we are confronted with is the ‘evangelizing’ for homosexuality in our parishes and now our Catholic schools. It is being backed by the drama teacher and principal of Sacred Heart of Atherton, and by the pastor of MHR. Our Archdiocesan officials have a duty to put a stop to it.”
Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 12:16 AM By Michael
The principal of Sacred Heart is James Everitt. He is a lector at Most Holy Redeemer and he made a $200 contribution to the "NO" on Proposition 8 campaign. You can verify the first claim at MHR's website and you can verify the second claim by searching donor databases online. Connect the dots. It's not difficult to figure out what's really going on with him and what his influence is at Sacred Heart. What a scandal.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 1:19 AM By Mary
What a beautiful title, "Be still and know", for a play about identity. Faith gives me the certainty that God will make good of this, even with the shellfish retort, as cliche as it has become.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:57 AM By Fr. M.P.
Certainly no one is surprised at the venue. Jesus was tempted by the devil who also used Scripture quotes to try and convince God to sin. This work is no different since the devil's minions are inspired to also attempt to use the Bible to justify their sins. The homo-marketing plan of sin continues unabated.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:00 AM By St. Christopher
Pray for these homosexuals and pray for the knuckle-headed sisters who are enablers of this sin. The lines cited are not new revelations of the Bible regarding homosexuality, and they have been long, and easily, refuted. The teenagers that read and see this stuff also need prayers, as no one is really looking out for their souls. And, where is our good bishop? Is he, or the silly and bloated "conference" to which he belongs, ever around to tackle real problems in real ways. I suppose that this "topic" might find its way onto the agenda of one of the numerous meetings, conferences, convocations, celebrations, and other observances that the bishops hold.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:25 AM By Tess
God owes an apology to Sodom and Gommorah, he destroyed them for far less.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:31 AM By A concerned reader
Even if you compare homosexual acts to eating shellfish, as scripture says they are both an abomination, then the two are still sins. To promote sin is not wrong. Why not throw adultery, murder and stealing in there too. All sinful acts, all wrong. I think you should love the sinner, but not their sin.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:40 AM By Aaron
The battle for gay acceptance continues. I completely understand it drives many Catholics crazy to see this sort of acceptance, but eventually, Vatican policies will change (maybe in 100 years)? After all, it was little more than 500 years ago when homosexuals were burned at the stake or hung upside down in the town square with specific church blessing. At least this grotesque brutality no longer occurs (although in some Muslim countries, gays continue to be beheaded). Ah progress. Isn't it great?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:41 AM By Pat Morris
Where are the Bishops of San Francisco?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 7:11 AM By Alice
When you want to promote something, the more people you get to go along with you, the more people you attrack. This agenda is being promoted by homosexuals, and what better way then to attrack our youth who are always looking for difference in their lives, and not their beliefs. Catholic schools should promote catholic doctrine. I would forward this to Pope Benedict XVI.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 7:25 AM By Charles O'Connell
Schools are where the action is, for homosexuals trolling for converts to their lifestyle. But Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, testifying before the Massachusetts Senate committee
studying gay marriage, noted that "the most comprehensive, most recent and most accurate study of sexuality, the National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS), was completed in 1994 by a large research team from the University of Chicago. . . . They studied every aspect of sexuality, but among their findings is the following: "7.1% [to as much as 9.1%] of the men [we studied, more than 1,500] had at least one same-gender partner since puberty. ... [But] almost 4% of the men [we studied] had sex with another male before turning 18 but not after. These men. . . constitute 42% of the total number of men who report ever having a same gender experience." Let me put this in context: Roughly 10 out of every 100 men have had sex with another man at some time - the origin of the 10% gay myth. Most of these will have identified themselves as gay before turning 18 and will have acted on it. But by age 18, a full 1/2 of them no longer identify themselves as gay and will never again have a male sexual partner. And this is not a population of people selected because they went into therapy; it's just the general population. Furthermore, by age 25, the percentage of gay identified men drops to 2.8%. This means that without any intervention whatsoever, 3 out of 4 boys who think they're gay at age 16 aren't by 25." 25% x 10% = 2.5%.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 8:01 AM By Nancy Jervis
The book, the play, the school, its leaders and their plan to put on the play are an abomination before God and man and all responsible for corrupting the morals of the young will have to answer directly to God for what they are doing and the ramifications of all their actions, spreading out like cancerous waves.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 8:10 AM By Laurette Elsberry
If there is any doubt about Archbishop Niederauer's ability to uphold the basic teachings of morality, his inactivity in clearing out the homosexualists and sodomists from his archdiocese speaks for itself. Can anyone give a logical reason why the Catholic Church should allow such an outrageous "play" to be shown?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 8:57 AM By Kenni
It's almost as if the Catholic "offenders" are the victims of these homosexual "victims." People are afraid to protest this for fear of being called a "hate Mongerer" or "bigot." People need to stand up for their beliefs.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 8:59 AM By Theo in Ventura
Very sad. Homosexuality is a sign of mental illness and I would cringe every time I saw a lector or priest or door greeter who was active with gay people. And it was a relief when every "model" gay couple would "break up" only after a few months. What a mess. Bishop Niederauer needs to assert the law and back it up with muscle.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:13 AM By Louise Brogna
I'm so sad to learn that one more (so-saying) Catholic school is allowing this blasphemy ! How long will God stand for this garbage? Onward to Glory!
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:32 AM By William
This is entirely unacceptable. It is heretical. The Archdiocese needs to begin making arrangements to close the school down unless and until the weeds growing freely are pulled out of this school. This acceptance of conduct that is anathema to our Faith has gone on far too long.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:46 AM By Eileen
The Archdiocese of San Francisco Catholic School Website lets everyone know their priority. It is definitely not imparting and solidly defending the teachings of the Catholic Church. There **is** a Pandemic Preparedness and Emergency Response team for....."The Bird Flu". Yes, they do have a strategic plan to train Diocesan staff members in case they see the telltale symptoms of the Bird Flu. There is no mention of a response team for the Pandemic outbreak of Apostasy that is spiritually lethal to the souls of our Catholic Youth. Our Catholic youth are being fed the rancid bird droppings of apostasy and they are digesting it right into action. Please telephone the Archdiocese of San Francisco (415) 614-5500 to let them know that the **Real Pandemic** outbreak has already arrived. This outrageous play that harms the souls of children and others should be canceled immediately. Phone calls do make a difference.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 10:03 AM By John M
Perhaps Our Savior's words regarding the millstone might ring a bell for these people.How can we share a common faith? There are serious consequences here. God is being mocked!
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 10:07 AM By Joe
That is disgusting! That school should be ashamed of itself. Society will collapse if the sacrament of marriage continues to be devalued.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 10:26 AM By Kell Brigan
OK, so, I'm looking for a movement or group or idunnowhat to get involved with to help foster and restore California Catholics' loyalty to the Pope and the Church's teachings. Miles Jesu's Continuity Movement sounds interesting, but they're primarily active in Europe (so far). Anybody know of any contacts for Catholics who want to actually be Catholic?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 11:11 AM By Sacred Heart, More
From the school website, John Loschmann, the drama director who presented this play also serves as "Faculty Moderator" to a school-run club called "Iris" whose mission statement is, "Iris creates a forum in which LGBTQ students and faculty, along with their straight allies, are able to confront discrimination based on gender identity and sexual orientation. We work to produce an atmosphere of compassion and awareness on the Sacred Heart campus. Our vision of SHP is a community of hope and security in which all members are respected." There are two more Faculty Moderators to this group Virginia Boesen and Corie Tyson. Please call your friends, colleagues, and family to inform them of what is being marketed under the banner of the Most Sacred Heart!
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 11:12 AM By Grisha
Charles O' Connor: Got simmiler stats for women?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 11:12 AM By Shawne
I think its wonderful that the students are doing this. Kudos to the school for showing the real truth of the Bible. Hopefully, the more that people understand, the more acceptance will come. I just found this quote and think it says exactly what I wanted to say:
Let us then embrace each other in love -- gay and straight together -- and kneel humbly before the Christ who took our place and tasted death for us that we might stand in His place and share eternal life with Him.
May we always lift up Christ,
for if He is lifted up,
He will draw all unto Himself --
men and women, gay and straight,
young and old, rich and poor.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 11:15 AM By Sacred Heart, More
Also from the school website, the school is marketing the homosexual lifestyle as evidenced by its "Multiculturalism and Diversity" policies, saying, "Some of the issues that are addressed in community forums include, but are not limited to religion, ethnicity, socio-economic class, sexual orientation, learning differences and race." All this under the banner of the Sacred Heart of Jesus. Pass this information on please.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 12:06 PM By Ronnie
A concerned reader: The argument put forth about equating eating shellfish and sodomy is a typical response from those who are trying to distort scripture. There is a difference between the moral law and the cultural or traditional laws of the day. Jesus upheld the moral law but did away with the cultural law when he often chastized the Pharisees for their legalistice and burthersome laws.....
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 12:13 PM By St. Christopher
To those who believe that accepting homosexual relations is, essentially, evolutionary, recall that Christ -- who you love to say "loves everyone" -- certainly did out among all classes of people. However, when Christ was with a "sinner" -- even if He said that He would not judge her -- their meeting was usually finished with "and go and sin no more." Christ never said, and there would be no reason for the concept of sin, or of a Church for that matter, that go home and continue to do what you had been doing; Christ gave explicit directions to stop their bad behavior, which he continued to call a "sin." Homosexuals have been fed baloney theology that their love is fine with Christ, because it is "love." Christ would reach out to homosexuals and He would likely be outspoken against those who seemed to be too harsh against them -- that is love and this is unquestionably what Christ meant. However, death ends the chance for redemption. We do not know what a kind and merciful God has in store for any of us, but it is likely that homosexual relations will never be accepted as the moral equivalent of eating shellfish viz its Biblical proscriptions.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 12:14 PM By Michel
Matt, you think freedom of choice is such a great gift? What about those who choose to murder? Christ did tell us to love. He also told the woman caught in sin to go her way and to SIN NO MORE. Please read your catechism. Learn what the church's position on homosexuality is. It is a disordered condition. If Christ were on the earth today, he would be trying to help heal people with this disorder, not encouraging it. Perhaps he would send them to a Courage meeting. As a support person for the Sacred Heart Schools, you have a duty to not only follow the teachings of the church, but also to model and to advocate appropriate sexual behavior for students who look to adults for support. Supporting homosexuality doesn't make it. It is a very grave matter to call others to sin. Hell is for eternity.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 12:27 PM By Dan
Matt,
You can talk all you want about "love" and "Christ" and try to blur the issues. The issue here is that Sacred Heart (short for The Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, a devotion centered on Jesus' infinite love for all as well as the sadness of Jesus who suffered and died for all, including those who reject him and are indifferent) Prep is running a play about homosexuality at a Catholic High School during Lent.
Lent is a time for prayer, fasting, and almsgiving as well as confronting our sinful nature, dying to ourselves, and being raised up to new life through a conversion of heart.
This Prop 8 political stunt is shameful, tastless, and scandalous. Also, where is it written that we should be tolerant of evil, especially evil that threatens others? Read Matthew and see what Jesus says about those who cause these little ones to sin (Hint: something about a great millstone). I hardly see how we should be tolerant of a wide-ranging movement that is evil and threatens the souls of our children.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 12:32 PM By Kell Brigan
God bless the memory of Bill W. (one of the primary founders of Alcoholics Anonymous). Not only did the man help save a lot of lives, but also he's provided a great ethical yardstick for dealing with issues like this one. If this play were about overcoming SSA, if "gay rights" activists were fighting for the rights of people with SSA to be free from physical threats or harassment while advocating ways for sufferers to oversome their SSA problem, if the folks in GLBT "outreach" programs were giving out anniversary lapel pins celebrating how many years have passed since a person last gave in to SSA, I'd be all for it. Don't see anything like this, here. Don't see any mention of avoiding sin at all, as a matter of fact...
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 12:36 PM By a confused reader
What happened to Freedom of Speech this is just a play that the drama teacher wants to present, I thought that we all have the right to education and that is what this is about to educate people. Gay people are not mentaly disabled. I thought that Catholics and other religions were suppose to be open minded about things and LISTEN to there fellow brothers and sisters. The WORLD is changing and cahnges have come a long way from the past.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 12:52 PM By Dan
Matt,
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is pretty clear on the subject of homosexuality. Do you have a copy there?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 1:07 PM By Dan
"Christians/Catholics have developed a perception that encourages a hierarchy of sin. This idea couldn’t be further from the TRUTH that Christ preached." Matt, I guess you and I have two different versions of the New Testament. How do you reconcile your claim with Matt 11:22 where Tyre and Sidon will fare better at judgement than Chorazin and Bethsaida. See also v. 24. Christ's own attitude toward sin shows He Himself had a hierarchy. Toward the Pharisees, he was fighting mad. Toward the woman caught in adultery, quite gentle and offering forgivenss (and of course the good counsel that she should stop sinning). We as Catholics have always believed that the Church exists for guidance and discipline of sinners (see Matt 18:15-20). And it is my understanding that the sins of the mind, pride and envy, are weightier than sins of the flesh, like sex outside of marriage. But God opposes all sin, despite the degree of offense. Church teaching is disheartening to those who would persist in denying its competence to delineate what is sin and what is not sin.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 1:34 PM By Kell Brigan
Matt Shane:
Here's your logic:
a) We're all sinners.
b) We'll never be perfect.
c) We're forgiven, so we don't have to fear anything.
d) Therefore, we can sin all we want without even trying to be better people.
Last time I checked, choosing to live in sin without making a good faith effort to change is to REJECT Christ's forgiveness. Your logic doesn't hold because in freely choosing to continue to sin (i.e. telling kids with SSA that having homosexual sex is just A-OK), your rejection of God's will renders God's foregiveness powerless. In order to save a willing sinner, God would have to violate free will, and that's not going to happen specifically because we are loved so much. Your rejection of God's will (i.e. choosing to sin as an act of your own free will) puts up an insurmountable barrier between you and God. You're happy about this? You're correct in saying that God's LOVE is constant, but if you reject that LOVE by choosing to sin, God will let you damn yourself if you really want to.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 1:38 PM By Michael
Matt Shane of IT support at Sacred Heart Schools: you must have noticed a surge in traffic to your network today. By the way, you're absolutely wrong about Catholic faith and doctrine. Stick to computers. Jesus did extend God's love to everyone but he also taught that everyone is called by God to obey his will, and that will expressly disapproves of homosexual acts and unions. Love and obedience to God's will are inseparable; if you don't have one you don't have the other. The "love" that you preach is a distortion of authentic love that merely validates one's own sinful proclivities. Homosexuality is a psycho-sexual disorder.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 1:49 PM By Maribel
Sacred Heart Schools, according to the information on its website, is conducting a campaign to raise $95 million. I hope this negative publicity causes people to retract their pledges or to refuse to contribute to a school that pretends to be Catholic. It would serve them right.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 1:52 PM By Ann Landell
Diversity is an idea that has been hijacked by homosexuals and it really is perverse because homosexuality is by definition not diverse. Diversity means coping with people's differences. Homosexuals do not cope with the bodily differences of the opposite sex. They stick with their "own kind"; males don't confront the scary differences of the female body -- same for lesbians. Male -female sex is diverse; the 2 sexes cope with each other's differences of brain, body shape and function; and psychology.
Teens struggling with "sexual identity" have no business having sex. Things can clear up a lot with maturity.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 1:56 PM By Scooter P.
Ha! The mascot of the school is the gator. Or should it be the gaytor?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 1:58 PM By William
To Shawne and Matt - You are being decieved by the Father of Lies. Homosexuality is not permitted nor accepted by God. It is considered perverse. There is ample scripture to support this fact but you may wish to read St. Paul in Romans 1:26. You live in a world of moral relativism. That is not God's world. That is Man's world. There is but one Truth. Homosexuality, whether you want ot believe it or not is a deviant and perverse behavior and the Catholic Church will never sanction it because the Catholic Church is based on God's Truth.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 2:02 PM By Not Matt Shane
Mr Shane: God can Love and be vengeful for those who ignore His teachings and violate His rules of nature. It was Adam and Eve in the garden He created, to pro-create, not co-habitate. You are correct, He would Love everyone, but He would not countenance such abominations. To endanger the soul of another, particularly our youth, as the organization you work for does, places your soul in mortal danger as an accessory. Think long and hard about judgment day and what you will have to answer for. We pray for you and your coworkers to see the light.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 2:24 PM By Patty
Do our Savior's words "Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as long as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in you own eye?' You hyprocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye" ring a bell with any of you. -- A Proud Sacred Heart Parent
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 2:45 PM By JLS
Here we have another ditto pitch by a homosexual behavior apologist, Matt Shane of Sacred Heart School. In his pitch for disordered sex behavior, Matt claims that only the homosexuals know the love of God. Where have we run into this propaganda before?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 2:55 PM By gin789
This is a disgrace. Every Catholic should call and demand that this play be cancelled imediately. All you have to do is look at both male and female homosexuals and you can see that they do not look healthy. God destroyed Sodom & Gommarah for the very same acts.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 3:23 PM By Anne T.
Any Christian who has ever read the Bible through and through knows that the taboo in the Old and New, Testament against sodomy was a moral law ( applies to both Jews and Christians), and the one against shrimp was just a ritual law (no longer applies to Christians). See Acts Chapter 10. It is just incredible how some people twist scripture -- as St. Paul warned -- to suit their own evil agenda.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 3:25 PM By RR
Patty: Your using the SAME OLD LINE the homosexual agenda use to pretend they are victims("Stop judging, that you may not be judged.") The homosexual agenda needs to come up with a new defense. This one is really getting old and it has been addressed SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many times on this blog.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 3:31 PM By RR
Scooter P: Gator/Gaytor is the perfect match for this school. The Gater/Gaytor is ready to devour the poor, misguided, and innocent souls of this school. So pathetic and sad!
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 3:38 PM By Cyprian
Patty: Why don't you take a look at John 7:24, "Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly." Christ is not commanding his followers to make no judgments at all; that's absurd. He's commanding his followers to judge correctly, as God judges. What appears to be love to supporters of homosexual unions is really a disordered affection. To judge justly, one must recognize and affirm that same-sex attraction is unhealthy.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 3:58 PM By Mary
“Bracing myself on the silver bed rail, I leaned over and touched my lips to his. It wasn’t a hard kiss, or very long, but it held me whole heart. And with that gentle kiss, all my doubts, guilt, and uncertainties vanished for a moment, replaced by a million possibilities. This was how it was supposed to feel: natural and real. It was how I was supposed to feel -- to have life and have it more abundantly.” - from “The God Box” by Alex Sanchez. Frightening or beautiful?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:01 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Kell Brigan,
The "Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc." is such a group and we are right now in desperate need for a volunteer Web Site Manager. Our long time Manager is now overloaded with his work and can no longer function as such. We are also in need of other volunteers as well, If you are anyone you know is interested please contact us. You can find our E-mail, address, and phone number by looking up our recent ad in the Wanderer exposing the Archdiocese of Los Angeles 2009 Religious Education Congress or by simple looking us up through information.
We sure could have used you this weekend at the Religious Education Congress as we worked to educate the many, far too many, attendees of the grave dangers to their souls this Congress represented.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:06 PM By Mary
Anne T, sodomy doesn't care if you're homosexual or heterosexual. By far, most "sodomites" are heterosexual. And many sexually-active homosexuals do not engage in sodomy. As best I can tell, there is no sodomy in the play, and no recommendation that anyone engage in it.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:07 PM By MarkF
I wish I could describe in a few short words exactly how evil homosexuality is. What we see in plays like this has absolutely nothing to do with what homosexuality is really all about. I swallowed this propaganda when I was a teenager and it lead to thirty years away from God. I speak from experience... homosexuality is a grave sin and it separates us from God. I've yet to meet a so-called "gay Christian" whose god was not homosexuality itself. Yes, you can be be religious and be an active homosexual. It's just that your religion will be the religion of homosexuality. Believe me on this one folks.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:08 PM By Grisha
"All you have to do is look at both male and female homosexuals and you can see that they do not look healthy."
Gin789 - I have to tell you that the 46 yr old lesbian, soccer mom, psychiatrist in the next office is driving me nuts. We go out to lunch, we have to fast walk six blocks (at her pace) first to "build an appetite." She then talks me out of what looks like a good burger on the menu and into some bland vegetarian delight. We go out for "drinks" and after I have one white wine she orders me a cranberry juice or some such. She runs or surfs every day and competes in masters swimming. I dunno - she's one "female homosexual" who seems pretty healthy to me.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:19 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Eileen,
Thank you for listing the phone number of the Archdiocese of San Francisco on the site.
I called and got a very polite but kurt response from I guess the receptionist. She took notes on what I said and promised to pass them on.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:25 PM By Mary
Dan, your statement "Homosexuality is not permitted nor accepted by God" is in error. The Church teaches that God "permits it, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it." (CCC#311)
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:28 PM By Patty
Dearest RR -- I find it hard to believe that any follower of Christ would take comfort in the fact that your judgemental views regarding this matter will most likely be metered out in an exponential manner when you meet our Lord. Live and let live -- I love you.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:28 PM By linda
You can talk about homosexual rights all you want and change the moral code to suit your lifestle, but the bottom line is this: sexual activity between two men or two women is gravely sinful. It is a teaching of the Catholic Church. The so-called Catholic Churches that do not attest to this teaching are fallen away from the teachings of Jesus Christ; they are wolves in sheep's clothing. It is true that Jesus Christ loves everyone, but He does not love sin. Jesus died for us and He loves us too much to let us stay in sin. Lent is the time to repent. To those who have homosexual characteristics, you are called to be chaste. You are called by God to build His Kingdom in a holy and pure way. We are all called to be pure and holy. We are all called to practice chastity according to our role in life. The Catholic Church teaches that married sex is holy and this occurs when a married man and woman completely give to one another in their marriage. It is so holy that a child is born from this marriage. Remember children are a gift from God. They are not a right. You can close your eyes to the truth and pretend all is well. To believe that homosexual behavior is righteous is morally scandalous. All those who participate in such immorality are gravely endangering their souls and will have to answer to God for corrupting others especially the young persons .
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:29 PM By Fred
Romans 1:25-27 tells us that same-sex sexual relationships are a consequence of idolatry. In other words, such relationships are a consequence of disobeying the FIRST COMMANDMENT, a major aspect of the GREATEST COMMANDMENT, to love God with all your being.
Homosexuals need to keep in mind, however, that the good news of the gospel is not about how God despises same-sex sexual relationships. In fact, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 shows that certain members of that church had been slaves to such relationships, but had been cleansed in Jesus' name. So they had evidently repented and accepted God's grace to straighten their lives out.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:31 PM By sdfwe
I think what people fail to see overall is that homosexuality, assuming it IS wrong, is just another sin.
God won't love you any less for one sin than another, and never revokes salvation based on the level of a person's sin. So, how can we say a homosexual is condemned to hell, but, say, a murderer is saved?
Plus, who are we to judge? Love all, and let someone else do the deciding about right or wrong.
The church should be preaching more on unconditional love than pointing fingers at the sinners. Aren't we all sinners anyway?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 4:46 PM By Mark from PA
Matt Shane, I thought your post was very thoughtful. Thank you for sharing. It is good to read that Sacred Heart School works to produce an atmosphere of compassion and awareness, a community of hope and security where all members are respected. It is good that the school wants such values and stands up for its gay students. Too many gay kids are made fun of and bullied and sadly a lot of people don't care because they dislike homosexuality.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:00 PM By Mark from PA
Mary, your comment of 4:06 was very good. This article says the play is about the struggle adolescents have with their sexual identity and their identity as Christians. What about all the closeted gay teens who are not sexually active and are trying to come to terms with their identity? What do they feel when they find out that the church sees them as disordered and defective people? How do they cope with the knowledge that many people see them as intrinsically evil? How do they respond to people that tell them that all homosexual acts are mortal sins and that they are going to hell? How do they have respect for themselves as people and children of God when others try and take this respect away from them?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:31 PM By Dan
"Dan, your statement "Homosexuality is not permitted nor accepted by God" is in error. The Church teaches that God "permits it, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it." Mary,there are two Dans posting on this thread, and I am not the one responsible for the comment which prompted your response. I agree that Dan's choice of words is less than perfect. God permits all kinds of things in this present age for the reasons you suggest. But "permit" and "approval" are two different things. Romans 2:4 tells us God is patient with us so we will forsake our sinful lives and turn to Him. Now, do you have two Dans to contend with on this thread?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:32 PM By Life Lady
A beautiful statue was made one day, which was gorgeous to see. It was of a person, a human being, and the statue was admired by everyone for the grace of the figure, and the loveliness of the facial features. It was so beautiful that people began to worship it, and to bow down to it, to bring it gifts, and flowers, as if it were a real person. When someone asked the artist what medium they had used to create such a wonder they replied: "chicken manure". You can certainly make any pile of chicken manure lovely, but in the end its still a pile of chicken manure. As is homosexuality. You can try to market it in such a way that appeals to all sorts of people, especially our youth, who love to rebel, love to get attention by doing things that are contrary to their elders, but in the end, its still rebellion. When I think about homosexuality in that context, as when others try to defend it as likeable, and a nice way to spend your time, I think about that beautiful statue, and realize, its still just another pile of chicken manure.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:38 PM By Mary
MarkF, you said, "What we see in plays like this has absolutely nothing to do with what homosexuality is really all about." Homosexuality is only the lure, but the title of the play says what the play is really all about, as the character at the end reminds, "Sometimes I grow impatient and ask, ‘What’s your will for me now, Lord?’ If the answer doesn’t come, I remind myself of Psalm 46: ‘Be still and know that I am God.’"
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 5:53 PM By Elizabeth
This is not appropriate for students to be involved in, especially at a 'Catholic' school!
Now we have to worry about the high schools...
Whom should we call/email about this, does anyone know?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 6:11 PM By Karen M.
Thank you, Matt Shane, for shedding your light. It was so refreshing after hearing all the hatred by these people who call themselves followers of Christ. Every posting here by those condemning homosexuality is filled with anger and hatred. There is no love for your fellow brothers and sisters who God created, unless it fits within your comfort zone. Yes, you use Catholic doctrine to support what you say, but you also make it painfully obvious that it's not the Catholic doctrine you're concerned about. You're terrified and it's clear you're just using it to give voice to your anger and hatred. The Catechism of the Catholic Church insists that gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” There is ZERO respect, compassion, or sensitivity from every last one of you claiming to be followers of Christ. "All you have to do is look at both male and female homosexuals and you can see that they do not look healthy." Seriously? Someone actually wrote this while sober and sane? I don't know. There is so much fear on this page, it's scary. I love the example Sacred Heart is setting and applaud the students and faculty members for being so brave. The Catholic Church should be proud of its followers who are setting an incredible example for our gay and straight children of God.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 6:30 PM By JLS
Patty, speaking of judgmental views, you take the cake, the grand prize, the blue ribbon. Find the Commandment forbidding judgment by Catholics; or have you simply gone along with the folk tale that God forbids us judging others.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 7:08 PM By JPeterman
Matt, God gives us the freedom to choose good, you can also choose to spend an eternity in hell and drag a bunch of souls down with you. Confirming people in their immoral lifestyle choice is not compassion but rather just the opposite, it's the lack of compassion.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 7:09 PM By Melissa
Can I ask a question to all the people on here who think that sin is no big deal... that we are all loved to the point where it doesn't really matter that we sin... if that is so the: WHY THE HECK DID JESUS DIE IN AGONY ON THE CROSS?????? Sin is real. Get real and get to the confessional.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 7:30 PM By SHP student
We DID do a good job. And will continue to do so.
The fact that SHP can produce an atmosphere why I can go though my education without ever once being called a fagot, even as part of the FIRST same sex relationship in my school, is the most Christ-like gift I can imagine.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 7:49 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
It is sad to read so many pro-sodmites and their protectors congratulate each other on their unwillingness to listen the Church on these matters, but instead quote off-the-wall so called theologians.
sdfwe, where have you read anyone on this blog even imply that unrepentant murderers go to Heaven? Can't you people at least stick to the subject?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 8:36 PM By straightplayattendee
Rarely have I been as saddened to be a member of the Catholic Church as after reading these posts. The level of ignorance and intolerance is truly stunning. How many of those posting here have even read or attended the play? How many have read the book upon which it is based? How many are aware of the most recent scientific results regarding the genetic determinants of human sexuality? As for the assertions about Sacred Heart Prep itself, they betray a staggering ignorance of the school, its philosophy and the environment that is carefully nurtured there - one of love and respect for all of God's creatures. It is not about instilling the closed-minded, self-righteous and sanctimonious views put forward here; instead, it is a place that teaches students to seek knowledge and understanding, question respectfully and doubt intelligently. After all, without the existence of doubt, faith is impossible. All of those posting here who are so certain would be well-advised to remember that.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:04 PM By "Angie"
Hi, I'm the girl who's playing Angie who wrote the blog. I'm very proud to be Catholic, and was recently confirmed and am very active in my faith. I am very proud of myself, my faith, and this play, and some of these responses are shocking. Behave as Jesus would have behaved and show some love and dignity, rather than spewing hate and sentencing myself and my castmates to hell. To quote the show, "If Jesus had said anything at all about homosexuality, is it such a stretch to think that he would have said that it's not the gender of your partner that matters, but rather, what's in your heart?". Before you release your fire and brimstone, maybe you should come see the show. After you've seen the show and met the people who made this happen, then you can tell everyone how we're "encouraging sin", but know what you're talking about before you condemn us.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:09 PM By Catherine
I am a student at Sacred Heart Prep and am a current cast member in the play Be Still and Know. I would first like to say that this play is smart, funny, entertaining, and truly eye-opening to anyone who goes to see it. Is it controversial? Absolutely. But it is an issue that needs to be addressed, in Catholic and Non-Catholic schools alike. Before you write off the play as wrong or sinful, GO SEE IT. The play focuses far more on being accepting and open to loving all people than it does on whether or not gay marriage should be legal. Many of you have argued that this play "corrupts the minds of our children" Well I am a child and I have always believed that homosexuals deserve every right that heterosexuals do. I felt this way before I became involved in the play, and before I ever had a single conversation about it with my parents. I would encourage all of you to stop poisoning your children's minds with your own straight-forward views. Let them come to their own conclusions and develop their own opinions, because that's how they will develop the person that they wish to become. The fact of the matter is, NONE of us truly know what God wants. In the words of Abuelita (A character in the show) "The bible was meant to be a bridge, not a wedge." Think about the Ten Commandments. Do any of you recall a Ten Commandment stating that we must hate all homosexuals? God calls us to love everyone as we love ourselves, and that is a Commandment. So leave the judgment to God,and focus on your own flaws rather than obsess over other people's. It is not your place to determine what types of plays local high schools choose to put on. I for one am incredibly proud to be a part of a community that is so loving and accepting of all people, and to be able to witness the changing of lives. Like it or not, the world IS changing, and in my humble opinion, you would be a fool not to change with it.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:20 PM By SHPstudent
Hello all,
I am a student at the school in question, Sacred Heart School, as well as a practicing Catholic and a male heterosexual. I have noticed several allegations against my principal, director of the drama department, and school mascot. I would like to say a few words to clear the name of my beloved high school.
I can honestly and without hesitation say that Sacred Heart is an environment that fosters true Catholic compassion, for all. James Everitt is a rare, great man. He is truly one of the most approachable principals I could have asked for, and is a kind, generous individual who designs his policies with compassion in mind. A paraphrased quote he once told me: "I have a hard time expelling students who are caught with drugs and alcohol... I just feel that the no-tolerance policy doesn't have compassion built into it." He also teaches a Social Ethics class at the school, and is a huge proponent of charity/service work. If you insult a man like that, you might as well mud-sling at Mother Teresa while you're at it.
The director of the drama department is phenomenal. He's fun, caring, serious about social issues. I remember the play he put on to honor the victim's of 9/11, composed of small, non-fiction monologues of people who were affected by the attack. Truly moving - another man who deserves utmost respect.
I've seen the play, Be Still and Know. All I can say is, come see it. Peacefully, please. I will say that I have never seen a performance, heard a homilee, or read a passage from the Bible that affected me like that play did. Try to open your hearts as you view it - I did, and God spoke to me. Thank you.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:23 PM By JLS
Angie, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. In other words your intentions are not your ticket to Heaven, but God's intentions. So far you're not lined up too well with them.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:28 PM By Mark from PA
Thank you students. Your teachers are surely doing a great job. The true Christian love and compassion as taught us by Our Lord Jesus Christ is shining through in your posts. May you teach and inspire many. God bless you.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:29 PM By JLS
straightplayattendee, there is no "closed-minded, self-righteous and sanctimonious views", as you call them, posted here. Rather what you are reading is the charity of God voiced by some of His faithful, who have sacrificed to learn His will in these matters. This charity is directed at those who are beguiled by the homosexual movement. Close minded means to shut out God and make up one's own religion, which is what the homosexual religion is all about. Homosexualists have the reputation of masquerading as otherwise legitimate personas ... which is why they often attempt to immitate faithful Catholics.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:31 PM By Daniel
This is not 2000 years of Catholic teaching that they're trying to undo. It's more like 3500 years going all the way back to Leviticus. At the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17-18) He wasn't talking about ceremonial laws, eating shellfish, and wearing mixed fabrics. He was talking about moral law, and he raised all those standards. That law is set in stone until he returns.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:35 PM By JLS
SHPstudent (there are two different posters with this moniker): You claim that God spoke to you, so what did His voice sound like?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:37 PM By Gibbons in SF
sdfwe: You've hit it on the head when you say "I think what people fail to see overall is that homosexuality, assuming it IS wrong, is just another sin." That's correct. But the people who refuse to see that homosexuality is "just another sin" are the homosexual activists who are trying to change Church teaching. That's the whole issue. Because it is a sin they like to commit, they say it is not a sin. They are attempting to set up their own church, based on a privilged position for their chosen sin. The question is why our Archdiocese continues allows it.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:43 PM By SHPstudent
JLS: not too different from the voices of a bunch of high school students :)
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:48 PM By Cornelius
The Sacred Heart students (if real) are not doing their school any favors by posting their ignorance and information about how their school undermines authentic Catholic faith. Archbishop Niederauer, where are you?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:52 PM By Alex
The kids seem to be under the misunderstanding that "compassion" means accepting whatever the other person wants to do. Jesus never displayed that type of false "compassion". Where do kids learn this foolishness?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 9:53 PM By Lot
As Catholics we must love and respect everyone but never go along with the deception of sin. We must love the sinner but HATE THE SIN and call everyone to conversion. Homosexual acts are against the natural law and since earliest time have been understood as deadly sin. This has always been taught by traditional Judaism and Christianity. To mislead teenagers into equating sodomy with dietary laws is dishonest on the part of Sanchez. To present this deception to young people who are probably not formed in the catechism of the Catholic Church is just plain wrong. Who will be there to pick up the pieces of lives chewed up and spit out by the gay lifestyle. Who will answer for the souls of people who were deceived by the falsehood and died and went to hell?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 10:11 PM By Pax Christi
JPeterman hit the nail squarely on the head with his remark, which is the bottom line of everything that's said on this topic: "Confirming people in their immoral lifestyle choice is not compassion but rather just the opposite, it's the lack of compassion." That goes with the sayings of Jesus and the apostles that love is fulfilled in the commandments. So just what part of "thou shalt not commit adultery" are these young, impressionable minds having trouble comprehending? And just why would they risk the eternal salvation of themselves and others by twisting "love" and "compassion" with serpentine semantics?
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 10:44 PM By SHP student
I may be gay but that hardly makes my
points any less valid.
Where did jesus ever say hate the sin? Or did he say love the sinner and forgive sin, for who of you is without sin?
And if a sin is something that hurts God other or myself, how is my love of another guy a sin?
I can only beg you to see it. Stories speak truths, not petty scriptural debates.
The other thing is you can hardly blame this on the administration. They are the body that ultimately responds to our needs, as the students. The new generation is aware of prejudices you don't even see. But it doesn't matter. The arc of history is long, but it will always bend toward justice. Even in the church.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 11:00 PM By Mary
Dan, you asked, "there are two Dans posting on this thread... do you have two Dans to contend with on this thread?" I don't know that I have any! But I permit you to speculate otherwise. You said, "permit and approval are two different things." If you mean, like a Good Father, God permits what thou shalt not, yes!
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 11:07 PM By Alfonso
The sisters of the Society of the Sacred Heart which founded this school has gone from being an order with several top colleges (all except one closed or merged) and schools to near extinction. Strange things happened to the order in the late 1960's. At Manhattanville College of the Sacred Heart (New York) their once prestigious flagship school, one of the sisters was determined to secularize the college. Left wing types were quietly appointed to the board of trustees while the previous ones were blocked, the ownership of the property was transfered out of the order, "of the Sacred Heart" was dropped from the title and the crucifixes/statues were taken away. On that day Rev Mother Morgan RSCJ aghast at the weird goings on stood with outstretched arms and blocked them from taking down the original statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus at the center of the main quad. The school severed all ties to the catholic church, turned coed (and radical for awhile). Sister Josefa Mendez RSCJ (in the 1920/30's) received many messages from Jesus which were compiled in a book called The Way of Divine Love (tan publishers). Her most serious warnings/visions concerned the fall of religious from their vocations and the lost souls of priests and nuns in hell.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 11:09 PM By SHPalum
I have never been more proud of my high school, or so ashamed of what my religion continues to be used to justify.
Kudos the Mr. Loschmann, the entire Drama department and the SHP administration. I wish I could be there to support them.
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Posted Monday, March 02, 2009 11:26 PM By Mary
Mark from PA, you asked about the struggle adolescents have with their sexual identity and their identity as Christians. It's a great many questions. As the play shares, Psalm 46 provides an exquisite, utterly clear answer: "Be still and know that I am God." Behold the peace that surpasses all understanding. My Rock. Here is no better, no closer answer than that which precedes all questions. God said, "Come no nearer! Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground."
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:25 AM By The other Mike
Hating the sin is easy. Loving the sinner is not easy, and in cases like this, near impossible. What is there to love about compassionless, remorseless, self-centered, homosexual recruiters?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:29 AM By Dan
"Well I am a child and I have always believed that homosexuals deserve every right that heterosexuals do." Catherine, thank you -- as a student at Sacred Heart you clearly present a strong case that the rejection of Catholic teaching there is far advanced. You later state "The fact of the matter is, NONE of us truly know what God wants." In such a vacuum, of course, you are free to decide for yourself what God wants, which is really what you want, and reject 2,000 years of Christian faith. Since for today's adolescence 5 years ago is ancient history, this is not at all surprising. In the glow of this new learning, with the encouragement of the many Marks of PA, you will find sooner or later historic Christiantiy has no meaning for you whatsoever.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:35 AM By Dan
"Every posting here by those condemning homosexuality is filled with anger and hatred. " Karen M., what denounciation of homosexual conduct would pass muster with you for its not being "filled with anger and hatred"? In other words, anyone who defends Christian morality is ipso facto hateful, or so it seems. I read the same comments and do not find the hate which seems so obvious to you. Perhaps instead the hate is inside of you, and you are projecting that anger on those with whom you disagee. Just a thought ....
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:27 AM By Vincent
Dear Lot, I think the Gospels teach us to love the sinner, and FORGIVE the sin (77 x 7 times!). And we are ALL sinners, all in need of forgiveness. Otherwise why recite the penitential rite at Mass? "I confess ... that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and in what I have failed to do." Now what about Leviticus: why the condemnation of same-sex genital activity as toevah (ritually unclean ... the same condemnation as for eating shellfish, etc)? This is all about ritual purity, which the Jews were obsessed with. Penetrating another man reduced that man to the status of a woman in their culture. For this tiny band of warriors, it was imperative that they procreate to build up their army: they viewed all men as heterosexual, and had no knowledge of constitutional homosexuality. Now that we do have this knowledge, how can we possibly deny gays the right to seek fulfilling love relationships? The Church should insist that they be moral relationships (i.e. faithful, committed, monogamous), and should celebrate them and bless them! As the Prophet Micah observed: This is all that Yahweh expects of you, this and this alone: that you act justly, that you love tenderly, and that you walk humble with your God.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:39 AM By Mark from PA
Homosexuality is not just another sin. It is an orientation. A person's sexual orientation is not a sin. Some people do hate this orientation. I doubt that this play is encouraging any particular sexual acts. Perhaps the students can tell us.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:46 AM By Mark from PA
I have read the gospels many times over but don't know if I have ever read Leviticus in its entireity. I wonder how many Catholic ever have. I wonder how many Catholic are even aware of all the rules and regulations in Leviticus. I wonder how many Catholics keep all the rules in Leviticus. Most of us probably break some of these rules every day. But they are the rules of men. Jesus gave the commands,"Love God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself." These commandments overrule Leviticus.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:53 AM By Kay
For $28,000 a year you would think you would get more for your education! Encouraging teens by endorsing lifestyles dangerous to them is done throughout all the media. Why do this in a Catholic school and parish? Pope JPII and Benedict XVI challenge us all to have an "encounter" with Christ, the real Savior who leads you to all truth, freedom and peace. Choosing a gay lifestyle, and for most it is a choice because we have promoted its normalcy for so long, is choosing a long life of unhappiness, no peace, many heartbreaks and potentially violence, illness and death,
Is this how we love our kids?? Jesus has better answers -- He has all the answers. I came out of a sinful "20" years as a heterosexual. Same thing -- sin is sin. I tried to talk myself into happiness and fulfillment -- it didn't work. The last "ten" chaste years with Christ have been the most amazing of my life. Yes -- He brings freedom and lasting peace.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:35 AM By Douglas
SHP students: here are some lessons your school apparently hasn't taught you: (1) homosexuality is a disorder whose cause remains unknown; but since it is a disorder it is not a gift from God. (2) "Gay" and "lesbian" are not proper identities because they describe disordered sexual tendencies; "male" and "female" are the only two sexual identities among human beings. (3) All homosexual acts are intrinsically evil; under no circumstances can they ever be approved. (4) All same-sex unions are gravely immoral, and society has a duty to preserve and protect the privileged role of the normal family as the foundation of society and the most healthy means of raising children. (5) Catholics have a moral duty to oppose same-sex "marriage" and all other types of homosexual unions. The Magisterium has issued many excellent teachings and documents supporting all of those statements. Maybe you should read them and produce a play that supports Catholic faith rather than opposes it. But be clear about this: if you have been taught that support for homosexual unions or sex is compatible with Christian faith or Catholic morality, then you have been mistaught.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:39 AM By Deliah
If you haven't seen the play, I urge you to. The play is about love and compassion, fundamental to Christian teachings. As Christians, we need to gain a better understanding of gay and lesbian people, as they don't choose their sexual orientation or the color of their skin. They are born with it. I hope you can open up your hearts and let love shine through, as hate will not bring us together.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:34 AM By Bruce
To Angie,
Jesus did say something about homosexuality. In restoring marriage to the Father's original plan in Matthew 19, He makes it clear that God's plan for sexuality (joining) is man and woman. Nowhere in the Gospels does He overturn the sexual morality promulgated by GOD thru Moses (whereas, the dietary laws were for the Jews alone). Indeed, he says He came not to overturn the law but to perfect it - to give us the grace of charity to do what we ought to do, obey God. To the sexual sinner (the woman caught in adultery) He showed the compassion you correctly write about, but He then adds immediately, "Go and sin no more," not "follow your feelings and My Father will approve anyway."
Also, Jesus chose Paul as an apostle and Paul makes absolutely clear that following one's sexual passions against the law of God leads to damnation. This applies to unchaste heterosexuals and homosexuals alike.
So, Angie, "be perfect as the Father is perfect." (Sermon on the Mount)
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:28 AM By Ron
The Abomination of Desolation continues at the Host “Un” Holy Redeemer Parish under the authority of Archbishop George Niederauer.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:46 AM By Kell Brigan
Check out the website of Alex Sanchez. All their discussion and links are based on the assumptions that homosexuality is permanent, is an "identity", that homosexuality isn't a sin, and that it's impossible for someone to be ex-gay. In other words, majorly anti-Catholic and 100% presumption. There's a link to "beyondexgay" but none to Courage or Jonah, or to Catechism or to any other doctrine or group that challenges their assumption or which is pro-Catholicism. Their presumptions are presented as absolutely uncontroversial. The play's a yellow brick road to Hades (and sorrow, and mental illness).
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:53 AM By Gary Lee
BLACK CLOUD OVER AMERICA
"In the days of Sodom, so too were men giving themselves over to all the pleasures of the flesh: eating, drinking, marrying, giving in marriage. All manner of sinful lusts are being committed. Men shameful with men, women casting aside their role of motherhood and lusting after women. As it was in the days of Sodom, so now is this black cloud over America." Our Lady of the Roses, July 14, 1979
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:00 AM By catholic
ERASE HATE!!
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:24 AM By Actual attendee
If the devil can quote scripture, what makes you all think that the lines condeming homosexuality are used by God and not Satan? I encourage all of you to see the play and be open-minded. I saw the play and was changed, for the better, by its logical and emotional nature.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:39 AM By hamspam
Lot... you said exactly what I wanted to say at the end of reading these posts (especially the ones by the students). Too many have accepted the lie that loving each other means that we accept sin, in ourselves or others. I have great compassion and love for those who have homosexual tendencies. Their cross is tougher than those I have been given. We all have crosses to bear and recurrent sins that plague us... our job is to decide whether we are going to embrace our cross and carry it with our Lord's to heaven through self-denial and sacrifice as Jesus modeled OR are we going to embrace the very sins that He is calling us to repent from and allow out souls to be sold for the "right" to these sins? The students have been misled into thinking that we are condemning the homosexual person... no... that is God's job to decide... but we must condemn the sin of homosexual acts. If we weren't meant to judge what is right and what is wrong as they seem to suggest, then God wouldn't have given us any guidance from scripture, nor would He have given us our conscience... which is meant specifically for judging just this kind of thing. I do not pretend to know how God will judge anyone at their death, our catechism teaches that His mercy can take into account all kinds of circumstances (ignorance, psychological weakness, etc) as mitigating circumstances for grave sins... but that doesn't make the sin less grave... it just reveals how merciful and awesome our God is. With such a loving and merciful God, it is out call to love Him back enough to want to avoid sin and offending Him at ALL costs... even if that means that we give up the possibility of a sexual relationship in our life with someone we are attracted to.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM By JLS
catholic, to erase hate, one good place to start is to cancel the play, and have all participants and supporters don sackcloth and ashes until Easter Sunday.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:55 AM By JLS
Actual attendee, many do not have to see a play about homosexualism to understand the nature and aims of it. Have you ever considered looking into real life?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:28 PM By Michael of MHR
Perhaps those critical of the performance of this play, it's actors and director, and of Sacred Heart Prep and Most Holy Redeemer for hosting it might find some direction from the USCCB's statement, "Always Our Children." It is available on their website and contains this quote from the late John Paul II "An even more generous, intelligent and prudent pastoral commitment, modeled on the Good Shepherd, is called for in cases of families which, often independently of their own wishes and through pressures of various other kinds, find themselves faced by situations which are objectively difficult. - John Paul II, On the Family, 1981, no. 77) I do not see a shred of the judgment, intolerance and ad hominem remarks found in so many of your postings. Let those without sin cast the first stone.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:38 PM By MarkF
As the only one on here with any substantial experience with homosexuality let me say this. There is no love in allowing someone to persist in this sin. It is beyond evil and it beyond deceptive. Let my silence on the rest speak volumes.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:59 PM By straightplayattendee
JLS: What planet do you come from? Sackcloth and ashes? What tailor fits you for your hair shirt? Your assertion that there are no "closed-minded" views here is laughable on its face, but certainly does not hold up to a disinterested reader. As for not being "sanctimonious" and "self-righteous", you may want to look up their definitions, as they so clearly apply to yours and like-minded posts. If you can only add heat to these exchanges without bringing any light, the best advice anyone can give you is: Be still and know.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:05 PM By catholic
wow JLS... you make me embarrassed to be a catholic...
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:29 PM By straightplayattendee
Bruce: First, let me applaud the Christian tone of your remarks - this board could use more of that approach. That being said, however, I have to take issue with some of your assertions. The passage in Matthew is focused on divorce and addressed to the Pharisees as they try to trick Jesus into making heretical (by their standards) statements that they then can use to attack him. Jesus does discuss sexuality briefly, but only in the context of three different types of abstention that preclude sexual activity outside of marriage. Interestingly, the first type noted by Jesus is those persons born without that opportunity. It is not clear to whom Jesus was referring. In general, all of Matthew frames the life of Christ in the context of the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy and the "updating" of Mosaic law, so it would be surprising had Matthew not portrayed Jesus as upholding those tenets. I believe this dialogue is not reported in any of the other gospels. As for quoting Paul, you need to remember he recommended marriage as an alternative to burning (for those without his self-reported ability to abstain); I hope you would agree even the Church has progressed substantially beyond this view in its consideration of the appropriate reasons for couples to undertake the sacrament.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:31 PM By Lot
The New Testament Corinthians 1 chap 6, verse 10: "Do not FOOL yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves -- none of these will possess God's kingdom.10 Some of you were like that. But you HAVE BEEN PURIFIED FROM SIN; you have been dedicated to God; you have been put right with God by the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.11
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:35 PM By JLS
M from MHR, "Always Our Children" is merely an opinion of some aparatchiks and bishops ... It carries no Magisterial authority.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:35 PM By EDITOR
Editor's Note: The March 2, 2009 comment by Matt Shane posted at 11:49 a.m. has been deleted at the writer's request.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:39 PM By JLS
straightplayattendee, I come from the planet of Lent and its season of penance. If you have never heard of it, then look in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or look up the recent sermons and speeches of Pope Benedict XVI. You may laugh at being closed minded but you should realize that wisdom requires one to close oneself to any enslaving influences of evil. On open mindedness, you should realize that one needs to be open to the words of God which are conveniently found in the Bible and in the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. Look up the Magisterium, as you appear to have no awareness of it ... be open to it.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:43 PM By JLS
Moreover, straightplayattendee, as for self righteousness, I know very well what that is; I reveled in it for years, just like MarkF reveled for years in the homosexual lifestyle ... but we both opened our hearts up to Jesus Christ and His righteousness and gave up our own vanities. But are you aware that your sense of righteousness is to exalt homosexuality above the clearly taught righteousness of God?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:46 PM By JLS
straightplayattendee: While you criticize another post's position over context, you glaringly omit the context that holds for what Jesus teaches, which is the entire course of Mosaic Law and history recorded in the Old Testament. So, what you are in effect doing is changing venue from reality to fantasy.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:39 PM By Jimmy Mac
In the Roman Catholic Church the word magisterium refers to the teaching authority of the church. This authority is understood to be embodied in the episcopacy, which is the aggregation of the current bishops of the church, led by the Bishop of Rome. Unless a bishop or bishops have been determined to be out of communion with the Bishop of Rome, he/they are members in good standing of the magisterium and, as such, teach authoritatively.
Bishops teach authoritatively, preach faithfully and provide for the sanctification of the faithful by means of providing access to the sacraments and liturgy of the church.
Unless specifically disavowed by the Bishop of Rome, the teachings of bishops are considered authoritative, whether promulgated individually or collectively.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 3:38 PM By JLS
Jimmy Mac, from the preface of "Always ... ": " It asks them to recognize that the Church offers enormous spiritual resources to strengthen and support them". This is excellent in itself as providing an insight into one of the major errors of the homosexual movement: It directs the parents towards the Magisterium, which says that the homosexual condition is disordered. Obviously, then, the "enormous spiritual resources" of the Church exist to help restore the homosexual to an ordered state; also, the Church resources are meant to help the homosexual to live a chaste life, according to the Judeo-Christian and natural tradition.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 3:41 PM By JLS
I forgot the most important thing, which is that the document addresses the personality not as homosexual, but as having a disorder. This helps clarify the doctrines on what exactly a personality is, and shows us that the compassion of Christ through His Church is ready, willing and able to help a homosexual redeem him or herself from the stigma of the disorder, thus freeing up the individual's personality from it.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 3:49 PM By JLS
Oops, Jimmy Mac: Turns out the document, "Always Our Children", is not an episcopal document. It was signed by only one cleric, a priest, and not a bishop.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:18 PM By SH
INTOLERANCE IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE
I am a student at the school in question
We may not agree with the concepts of homosexuality but HATE IS UNACCEPTABLE.
Jesus would be appalled at some of these remarks. This play is not going to make anyone gay nor is it a sin or abomination. Everyone is missing the true point of the play -- GAYS ARE PEOPLE and deserve the exact same respect that our church's founder preached to the outcasts and the apostles.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:42 PM By Jennifer
Sacred Heart students: do you believe that opposing same-sex marriage is hateful? Is everyone who disagrees with homosexual sex hateful? Can someone say, "No, that kind of behavior and that kind of relationship is wrong," without being considered by you to be a hateful person? Or in order to not be hateful, does a person have to accept everything that homosexual activists want others to accept about them and their desires for social legitimacy? If you think that people cannot disagree with or oppose same-sex marriage without being hateful, then you do not understand hate. Or love.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:50 PM By Talitha Kumi
"Angie" do you know who is 'proud' of you also? The enemy of your immortal soul.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:58 PM By Kell Brigan
Open note to any clergy listening: it's amazingly depressing to have to look on online bulletin boards to get lists of "welcoming" parishes just to know which apostate parishes to *avoid*. I travel a lot, and like to visit other churches, but I don't want to be sitting anywhere where I'm going to hear, in a Catholic service, Prop 8 bashing or hypocritical claims that sexually active "Catholic" gays aren't committing mortal sin, or misrepresentations of same sex "couples" as families.
The difference in levels of piety and doctrinal accuracy between different parishes is ridiculous! How can churches diametrically opposed to each other on key issues be allowed to exist in the same religion?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:12 PM By SF
Intolerances is sometimes acceptable. I am a member of the Archdiocese of San Francisco. We may not agree with the concepts of homosexuality but to fail to hate those concepts is unacceptable. Jesus would be appalled at some of these remarks. This play is going to make people support "gay" and this is a sin and an abomination. Everyone is missing the true point of hosting the play -- PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE and deserve the exact same respect that our church's founder preached to the outcasts and the apostles.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:15 PM By Disappointed teen
As a student, I am utterly appalled by the things that have been said on this discussion board. I am outright offended that you Christian people have taken it upon yourself to hate my school. You have personally attacked wonderful people, and amazing teachers. You have criticized a community, which is so special to me and so unique. You have distrusted a faculty that goes to great lengths to foster an atmosphere in which every single person is accepted and respected for who they are and what they believe. Regardless of what you believe, remember what Jesus Christ taught about acceptance, respect and love. Be Still and Know was not an attempt by any part of the administration to convert teenagers to a “sinful” lifestyle (That is absolutely absurd!) rather it aims to promote social awareness.
As a teenager, I am embarrassed by the generation before me. I only hope that the hatred you posses will not be passed on to my generation. I hope that the world that I live in down the road will be one of change. A world in which every person is loved as Jesus Christ taught.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:31 PM By JLS
Now what I'd like to carry on in this thread, after getting the idea from reading a post on another thread, and which I introduced in my immediately previous post (which might not make the editorial cut) is this: By extention of logic, if it is Catholic and good to learn about homosexuality and homosexuals by indulging in such behavior or in the advocacy of it, then it is also good to learn about sin by sinning. Right? Wrong: This sort of idea, now being taught by through this play and its sponsorship by a Catholic school, with evidently episcopal approval ... this sort of idea presumes that we are not sinners, and that the only way to learn about sinners is to become sinners. I'd call that heresy. Let's see how long it takes for some bishop to take up the issue ... it will happen at some point in the future, has happened in the past, and even bigger chunks of the Church have been sent packing.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:59 PM By Logic..
I believe that the only people that have the right to comment on the content of this play are those who have personally seen it.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:11 PM By Mark from PA
This is an excellent discussion here. I am moved by the heartfelt comments of many of the students here. I see so much of Christ's love in them. Their school must be so proud of them. God bless Sacred Heart Preparatory School and its students.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:39 PM By SH
In response to your last post JLS, did Jesus not enter the homes of the outcasts and so-called sinners of his day(the tax-collectors and Mary Magdalene)? Did he not say in Mark 2:17, "Those in good health have no need of a physician"? Thus, Jesus calls us to know and understand homosexuality as it affects those people he loves. Jesus reached out to the so-called sinners of his day, much in the same way we all should reach out to those you prosecute. In the same respect, the conversion of Saul, did Jesus not say "why do you prosecute me"? and then Saul was blinded until he converted? In the same way, all of you are blinded of the love that homosexuals have to offer and until you believe that they are not sinning, which I believe, then you will be able to see clearly.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:39 PM By Anonymous
I am appalled by the insults that have now passed between those on either side of this, but I am especially appalled that adults -- who I believe are parents -- have spoken in such condescending and passive-aggressive ways to both high school and college students, who are still, as yet, teenagers. This certainly is no proper forum for your resentment, and your cruelty is no example at all to set for a youth you demand to be amenable to your own opinions.
To all this, I have only one response: there is one assumption upon which the first comments depended, and one which I believe is the most problematic: those opposed to the play assume gay people are sinners, or simply, gay people have control over their sexual preferences in the same way as someone exerts control over his decision to steal or murder.
You encourage you all to study biology. More often than not, sexual preference is predetermined by what we have inherited through our given genetics, a fact which is becoming more clearly indisputable and equally provable.
I am a Sacred Heart graduate who received a tremendous amount of financial aid to attend the school. I received the finest education possible then because I was exposed to the finest people -- my teachers, and the school's present principal -- I could have ever hoped to know.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:06 PM By MarkF
And yet not one of you kids who saw this play know one real fact about homosexuality. Tolerance sounds like a great idea. It really does. But does sin ever start out by looking bad? I was prodded into the homosexual sin when I was a teenager. It starts out with plays like this, but it ends in a far, far different place. And is tolerance as people all that homosexuals are asking for? Come on, let's be honest here. What they want badly is for this to be accepted. This at heart is a matter of faith for all you straight people out there, because you will have to accept as a matter of faith how evil homosexuality is. You will never see the real face of it. That is kept hidden, though you can see it if you look for it. What you will see are plays like this, and all sorts of other propaganda to make it look normal. What you won't see is the endless cruising, the violence, promiscuity, hatred of the normal... the real ugly face of homosexuality. Should we now have a play about how drug addicts need tolerance? Aren't they people too? Why not have a play with a nice, respectable heroin addict? Someone who looks normal and not like a real addict looks? This is the best analogy I can come up with. You're being presented with a facade, a propaganda tool, a phony image of what homosexuality is really like. You straight people can feel good about yourself because you're all for "tolerance." You can feel all nice and comfy about how liberal you are. Yet millions of people (not you of course) are lured into this lifestyle by your compliance. Many will die of AIDS. All will have their souls shredded by this twisted behavior. And you want to look away. I can't and I won't. I've seen too much to keep silent.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:18 PM By Douglas
Anonymous: your claim that same-sex attraction disorder is genetically based is falsified by the occurrence of twins -- genetically identical -- one of whom has normal sexual attraction and the other of whom is homosexual. Such cases are documented. If there were a genetic basis to homosexuality, then both twins would be homosexual. You are simply wrong: there is no evidence -- none whatsoever -- to support the claim that homosexuality is genetically based. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary, as I just mentioned. If the teachers you had at Sacred Heart taught you that homosexuality is normal, then you did not have the finest people as your teachers; you had people who misled and mistaught you because they put errors into your head. Unfortunately, that particular error is increasingly common among the so-called educated.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:21 PM By Old Lady
Dear bright, young, loving Catholics - please do not let the fringe element on this site in anyway tarnish your beliefs about our faith or our Catholic community. I, too, am heartbroken to read these comments, but this is the voice of a very small, albeit noisy, group. Their hate speech does not represent all (or even a majority of) Catholics. If these hate mongers have made you ashamed of your faith, I beg you to talk with your clergy or your teachers. As bright, thoughtful and articulate teens, I see you as real agents for positive, loving change in the Catholic Church.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:44 PM By dan
" I am appalled by the insults that have now passed between those on either side of this..." Anonymous, once again, you interpret those who believe in the Church's teaching on homosexuality as hate-filled. I ask you the same question I asked Karen M. above: how would you like us to affirm Church teaching so that we can avoid being "cruel" and resentful to you? It would seem there is no way; this seems to be a constant with the new learning: there is no way to disagree without being branded a hatemonger. SH at 6:39 p.m. spells it out quite plainly: "In the same way, all of you are blinded of the love that homosexuals have to offer and until you believe that they are not sinning, which I believe, then you will be able to see clearly. " Parsing this, we find SH asserting the Christian faith is just wrong (if we only knew biology), and those of us who reject the new learning are blind besides being hateful. I have to keep thinking after reading post after post with these sentiments -- is it possible an entire school has lost its collective ability to be critical of homosexual claims?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:49 PM By JLS
Sorry for you, SH, in your abyssmal error. When you try to sell the idea that Jesus wants us to understand homosexuality, a grave disorder, you are indeed perpetuating a deceptive evil. St John in the Seven Letters to the Seven Churches, is instructed by the angel of God to write two of those churches and warn them to renounce their habit of delving into "deep mysteries", namely trying to understand the depths of evil. So, your idea that God wants us to experience such an evil as homosexuality is absolutely wrong. BTW, Saul (later ST Paul) was carrying out the Law of Moses, and had the authority to do so. He was corrected by Jesus, and allowed himself to be transformed by the will of God. Homosexuality was not Saul's problem; but there have been homosexuals who have made the converstion from sinner to saint ... by giving up their sin. Saul did not know he was committing objective sin; but as soon as Jesus taught him, then he gave it up. How many homosexual sinners do you know who have seen the light and renounced homosexuality? Come up with some proof or evidence that your play brings about repentance in the homosexual community.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:51 PM By JLS
Anonymous, since no other adults or parents loved their children enough to teach them their religion, then it falls on the shoulders of the wider Church. You should be happy that some folks care enough that they spend hours trying to bring some truth to those in the darkness of homosexuality.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:54 PM By JLS
Anonymous, what you fail to apparently consider is that Jesus and St Paul converted many homosexuials from their sins. Do you consider that to have been a waste of time, now that your generation has "discovered" that there is no need to turn away from homosexuality if the desire is to get to Heaven? See, you make the point your argue against. If you are going to be Catholic, then you have to understand that the Church teaches and has always taught that God does not change, nor does His Son Jesus Christ who converted homosexuals from that sin; if your argument is true, then why would He have bothered?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:15 PM By Alum
Thanks to the students and alumni who have shown the true spirit of Sacred Heart. I am proud to know that Goal V, "A social awareness that impels to action," is going strong. And to the "adults" who are questioning a school that graduates talented, intelligent, thoughtful, moral students every year, please relax. Be still and know. This school does a really good job. These teachers are the most amazing people. Would you rather the school foster self-hating, church-hating, angry students or loving, spiritual, motivated ones who happen to think Jesus doesn't really care who's gay? Even if you think God is really going judge us based on who we fall in love with (honestly, does that sound like a Christian God to you?), learning to accept gay people is not going to make someone gay. As Anonymous wisely pointed out, biology is a very important part of sexual orientation. I encourage everyone to watch the documentary For the Bible Tells Me So. Even if you think may respect for gay people is immoral, you should give this film a chance. I will conclude with something my Bishop recently reminded me. "If the Gospel is to be truly Good News, it has to be just that, Good. For Everyone. Whether they believe it or not, Christ loved them enough to die for them."
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:23 PM By Alum
PS. Thanks to Old Lady for restoring my hope in the older generation. And question for all those who keep assuring me that homosexuality is a sin. Sin is generally applied to actions that hurt or degrade oneself, someone else, or humanity at large. How does falling in love with the 'wrong' gender hurt anyone, aside from the common pains that falling in love often includes? I really want to know the answer to this question, because I have met many homosexual couples, loyal to each other for years, who embody the loving atmosphere that I call a family. The editor replies: read the official teachings of the Church regarding homosexuality in the Catechism, which answers your question this way:
"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved."
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:27 PM By Sraightbutinformed
What they are finding now, is that people are genetically predisposed to homosexuality, and then they, based on their experiences, either become homosexual or do not. It is clearly not a choice. You may, however, argue that it is on par with congenital diseases, but saying it is a choice is just misinformed. Would you ever choose to be gay? To deal with the hardship that they have to. Putting your belief that homosexuality is sin aside, could you live in society and lead a homosexual lifestyle and be happy with it?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:40 PM By MarkF
And yet none of you have one word to say to the only person here who knows what homosexuality is really all about. It all comes down to two options. If, as the the pro-homosexual people say, that homosexuality is perfectly fine, well then the Church is really just a bunch of mean ol' people. But what if homosexuality really is something destructive? Will any of you allow for that chance? If it is so wonderful then why is the Bible against it? Why have society's around the world known enough to be against it? Will you at least grant us the right to teach that it is a very dangerous sin? If the Church's premise is right that it is very destructive, then isn't the compassionate thing to do to warn people about? And isn't an attitude that ignores that the same thing as telling young people that drugs are harmless if you handle them well? Can't we at least agree that if the premise that homosexuality is dangerous is a correct one, that opposing it is not "hatred" or "bigotry" but is instead wise, prudent and good?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:24 PM By Talitha Kumi
Respect is for every single human person as we our created in the image of God, and are commanded to love one another. But gay is a stolen word. People who fall in love with a person with the same (excuse me ) genitalia are not gay, that is, not happy or filled with joy. Are you (they) misreading emotions. Love requires sacrifice, it might begin with 'a feeling' but is actually an act of the will and in the case of SSA that means dying to oneself for the good of the eternal soul's life of the beloved (or belusted) and for ones own soul.. We are not "afraid" of becoming 'gay by osmosis but we don't need to waste our time reading things or viewing plays that distract us from doing things that please God. It is late I need to go . I think my gist is evident in spite of less than stellar execution.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:31 PM By JLS
Old Lady, you must have missed the part about Catholicism where the Pope and all the faithful bishops have said that homosexual activity is gravely sinful and needs to be stopped.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:02 PM By Sraightbutinformed
MarkF -- Drug addiction is a sad medical condition. They need support just as any other suffering human does. Rather than thinking about them as sinners, why not help them as souls and bodies in need. By the way, because of Catholic teachings about contraception actually "supports" the HIV virus, so do not use that example.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:10 PM By Kell Brigan
"Would you rather the school foster self-hating, church-hating, angry students or loving, spiritual, motivated ones who happen to think Jesus doesn't really care who's gay?"
How about self-examining, humble, God-fearing, repentent students who know that being "gay" will lead to the loss of their soul if they continue to place themselves in temptation and in the midst of people celebrating sin?
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:13 PM By Anne T.
Also, to all you young men who think the homosexual lifestyle is so great, look up John Wayne Gacy; Arthur Gary Bishop; Robert Berdella and Ottis Toole, besides Jeffrey Dahmer. MarkF is right. It can be a very dangerous lifestyle. It is not as it is portrayed. Yes, I know there are heterosexual serial killers, too, but anyone takes a chance when they pick up people they do not know, or are picked up by people they do not know, especaily in bars.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:17 PM By anonymous other
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states "men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies ... must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided." So any idea that Catholicism supports intolerance and hate is completely false. Thank you Alum for hitting the nail on the head, you are absolutely right in every way.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:41 PM By anonymous other
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states "men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies ... must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided." Therefore, any other argument based upon Catholic teaching is false because the catechism itself, the basis of Catholic teaching states that respect and sensitivity will be shown to homosexuals and injustice towards them is unacceptable. Therefore, anyone who has been unjust, insensitive, and disrespectful is breaking Church Doctrine.
The editor responds: The teaching of the Catechism with respect to homosexuality, to be properly understood, must be considered in its entirety -- not in bits and pieces favoring one agenda or another. Here is the full teaching of the Catechism on the subject: "Chastity and homosexuality --
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:05 PM By JLS
MarkF, take heart, you're in the fold of Jesus now. They are not looking for truth, but for sex. Yet, keep testifying for the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. That in itself is good; and maybe even will linger in the minds of a few lost souls, so that one day they will be moved by it. I can recount many little conveyances of the grace of God in my time of wild living. These worked to slowly nudge me along a path that led eventually and finally (thank God for the grace of hope) brought me to Jesus. We are to speak the Word of God both "in season and out of season". His word will not return empty.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:11 PM By JLS
Straightbutuninformed: Drug addiction is also a sin. Homosexuality is a disordered condition, and its sexual behavior is a sin. Call these things diseased or make up whatever term you like, but the bottom line is to relieve such people of their sin. Healing happens better, faster and more thorough when the burden of sin is lifted. The mission of the Church is to save souls; part of this mission is to heal people in the temporal state, but it is not necessary for salvation and thus does not happen all that frequently. You can get testimonies of "little" healings, which seem to me to be common place, and attributable to divine intervention; although none of this is at all provable. So, the Church is indeed intersted in healing hurting souls ... you should read testimony of major things of this nature, and you might come away with a deeper understanding of what life is about.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:15 PM By JLS
Straightbutuninformed: Contraception is not all about AIDS, as homosexuals love to dwell on, but about following the will of God. Contracepting not only is often abortifacient, but confounds the possible events of conception. God wants conception by spouses. He reassured both Adam and Eve of this, and has never countermanded His command of this.
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Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:16 PM By Eileen
Alum, My homosexual cousin who died from A.I.D.S. would have strongly disagreed with your opinions. He repented and asked to be baptized a few months before he died. My cousin knew that living the homosexual lifestyle cost him his life. He was so sorry for his sins and he knew that his sins had offended God. I have posted before that right before he died he looked up and kept asking, "Who is the beautiful Lady?" We had been praying the rosary for him. Alum, for all of the young impressionable students who are being taught that sin does not matter, it does. My cousin at one time sounded just as confident as you do about promoting sin. When it came down to the reality of facing the consequences of living a sinful life, he had a total conversion of heart. Although sinning cost him his earthly life, it was God's Mercy and Forgiveness that gave him hope for Eternal Life. One of the most difficult things that my cousin faced was his sorrow and concern over the souls of others who he had either sinned with or had influenced to sin. Alum, that is what you are doing with these impressionable students. Tell everyone how much God loves them but it is important for you to know that you should not influence others to think that sin is acceptable. My cousin knew that he would be held accountable and he did not want to face Almighty God without saying he was sorry. You still have time to reflect on your choices and actions. My cousin might still be alive today had he not been influenced by the same old lies that you are promoting to others. Sin only brings destruction Alum and if you claim to love others, please use your influence to help others not to offend God. You will also be held accountable. Christ did love all of us enough to die for us. The question is, "Do we love Christ enough to rather die than greatly offend Him?"
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:56 AM By Mary
Promiscuous sexual encounters, STDs, drug and alcohol abuse, destructive relationships, etc. are human issues that can affect anyone whether they’re gay, straight or whatever, including married Catholics.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:12 AM By RR
MarkF: You, truly, are a good man. God will reward you some day. Your post Tuesday at 7:06 was great. Most of the ACTIVE homosexuals and homosexual supporters (not surprisingly) will not respond to you because they have no legitimate excuse for their sins and immoral behavior. Keep up the fight. It may seem like it's a hopeless cause, but I know what you say does make a difference to a few ACTIVE homosexuals. They may not want to accept it now, but like you, someday they will. It took you a while and it will take them a while. God bless you!
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:26 AM By RR
Eileen: Your post March 03 @ 11:16 made me cry. It was the most heartfelt post I've read on any blog as long as I have been posting on CalCath. If people could only know how bad ACTIVE homosexuality is. It's so sad. I am happy your cousin was given the opportunity to have the gift of final sorrow and repentance. I pray every day for myself and others to be given this final earthly gift from God. It's so sad when we try to tell people that ACTIVE homosexuality is a sin worthy of hell and they won't listen. We are called "haters, closed minded, judgemental, holier than thou, ... when in reality it is our love for other souls that drive us to admonish the sinner. Thank you and God bless you. Please, say a prayer for me.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:35 AM By Almond Milk
Anyone who defends mortal sins are only wrecking their salvation and others as well. Hell is only getting bigger. Anyone who denies that there is a hell, is considered a heretic in the eye's of the church. These are not my teachings, these are teachings of the church, from the doctors of the church and early church fathers. These sins distract the human soul from truly doing the will of God. These young men who feel the need to defend homosexuality are truly slaves to sin because they are distracted in worldly things and ways, and to me that is not something to brag about nor something to view as beautiful. Beauty is seeking truth and honoring God in all things, in all of His ways.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:34 AM By Alum
I still haven't gotten an answer about what makes homosexuality a sin. A couple bible verses (which are, like most of the laws about family a little behind the times; anyone out there willing to sell your daughter?) are not enough. Saying that HIV is a sign that it is destructive also doesn't work, because lesbians have the lowest transmission rate of HIV, while the highest infection rate in this country right now is among straight women. And saying that homosexuals cannot seek God because they are too busy seeking sex is a grave misconception of what it means to be gay. I am not trying to be a "promoter of sin," but simply to find out what sin is.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:06 AM By Cy Johnson
Tolerance of sin is intolerance of man.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:21 AM By Ron
Forty years ago the World Health Organization and the American Psychiatric Association classified homosexuality as a mental disorder. The inmates are now running the asylum and the disorder has been declassified. Regardless of popular public opinion or the current definition from the medical establishment, homosexuality in intrinsic evil as defined by the Catholic Church. It is evil, it always has been evil and it always will be evil.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:26 AM By JLS
Alum, the answer has been frequently posted. You need to open your mind to it. The devil rebelled against God, and has led man into rebellion ever since. Jesus has saved man from the consequences of this rebellion. God instructed man through the Mosaic Law what the specific forms of rebellion, ie sin, are. And homosexual acts are sin according to God. If you do not believe God, then you are in "good" company; Adam and Eve were the first people to choose to believe the devil instead of God. They did repent, from what the saints surmise. This stands to reason, for Scripture shows us the natures of penitents and of obstinate sinners. Study it and you will begin to find the answers that your soul and all souls profoundly desire.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:29 AM By MarkF
You know, to bring an amount of closure to this discussion, let's start off where we agree. I think we can all agree that something happened in the West in the last century or so that could be labeled as "homophobia." I'm a historian by trade and I can see that though homosexuality was always considered to be a mortal sin in Christendom, it was not focused on like is has been recently. Related to this is how men in the West used to be allowed to show affection for each other. Not so now. Now that is seen as "queer." Look at the typical American reaction to seeing Arab men walking hand in hand. We have a tough time not seeing homosexuality there, even when it's not. So there is a sin of homophobia here, a fixation on it to the exclusion of all other sins. Having said that, a play that tries to get kids past that is a good thing. Yet I suspect, like all homosexual propaganda it doesn't have a third act so to say. The third act of a play about a homosexual youth should have some mention of Eileen's cousin in it. Once we get past the discrimination against gay people, we'll find that there really is something very dangerous there, and it's not caused by the culture or repression or whatever. The ancients found this out and they flocked to the liberation from sexual slavery to the healing love of Jesus. Some on here talk about "love" being forbidden by the Church. It is not love that is forbidden but sex that itself destroys that love that is forbidden. You act as if the Church is taking something good away from us. Can any of you name one thing that is a sin that is good for us? If you can't, then why do you assume that homosexuality is something good that the mean ol' Church wants to deny us?
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:30 AM By JLS
Eileen, it could not have been better said.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:36 AM By Kell Brigan
Alum, you're on a CATHOLIC message board and we're talking about this play being sponsored by a CATHOLIC church. Scroll up and you'll see the Catechism (aka. Da Word from Da Man) quoted. If you're presuming to be Catholic, you have by definition agreed to follow the Church's teachings. If you don't want to be Catholic, it's your funeral (alas, probably literally), but you've no business complaining about members of a religion who have the unmitigated gall to actually like, want to be *good* Catholics. (Am I the only one who keeps flashing on Private Benjamin whining, "I don't wanna be in the army!" while marching in the rain. You know, the scene where the other women recruits tell her, "Well, WE do!")
John 2:3-6 -- And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says, "I know him," but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him; he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:12 AM By Lisa T.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Most Holy Redeemer parish needs to be closed down. As long as the MHR church building is located in the Castro district no good will come. Now a parish member of MHR is allowing children to be part of the scandalous activities that take place at 100 Diamond Street. The diocese wouldn't dare put any Holy orthodox priests who would have the guts to teach the Church teaching on homosexuality because the priest would most likely be murdered. If it the church been closed after all those S&M leather events which were held in Ellard Hall, oh and let's not forget the Sisters of Perverted Indulgence Revival Bingo (check that out on You Tube). This latest scandal would not be possible if the church was closed. Everyone needs to call the SF Diocese and voice their Concern. For anyone new to this site please google Homosexual Activism in the Archdiocese of San Francisco to see the desecration and depraved sexual acts which have been allowed at MHR.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:14 AM By JLS
Here is how Ezekial, one of the major Prophets of God, tasked with delivering God's word to man regarding silence on admonishing the sinner: "If I say to the wicked man, You shall surely die; and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his wicked conduct so that he may live: that wicked man shall die for his sin, but I will hold you responsible for his death" (Ez 3:18)
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:47 AM By Grisha
Lisa T: As a lifelong Catholic, I have to say that the idea we should not have a Catholic Church in ANY neighborhood sounds so strange. Consider that we have churchs in parts of northern Mexico where the Narcotafacantes brutally murder each other, the police and innocent bystanders on a daily basis. The Church needs to be EVERYEHERE. As for MHR you may be seeing only a small slice of parish life that's been hyped on the net. Why not attend mass and hospitality hour there sometime and try to get the complete picture.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:13 PM By Kell Brigan
About closing MHR -- I'd hate to see Catholicism leave the Castro entirely, since, for one thing, that's exactly what the pitiful souls in "Perpetual Indulgence" are working for. (Imagine how much pain you'd have to be in to be so obsessed with hatred for a religion that you spend hours and hours every week thinking up ways to try to shame it. Watch these men on the videos at YouTube; they're obviously "performing", but underneath the clown suits, you can see they're screaming in pain.) I wonder if there's a way Rome could "deny communion" to the Parish. In other words, forbid anyone at the parish saying Mass until they demonstrate that their parishioners are participating in Reconciliation, not celebrating sin, not giving money to gay "marriage" campaigns, etc., but keep the Parish otherwise open and available with counseling sessions and the existing AIDS ministry, etc.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:27 PM By Blog reader
John Malloy's blog has a comment from someone who saw the play. There's a scene in which the character who wonders whether he is gay is told to look at pornography (both male and female) and "see what turns you on" in order to figure out his orientation.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:23 PM By MarkF
Alum, you seem to be sincere about your beliefs, so can I ask you to take a bit of time to consider what the Church teaches about homosexuality. Read what sin is in the catechism. Sin is what separates us from God. Have some faith in the Church. She does not take away from us things that are good for us, only things that are bad for us. Think about this. All sin looks good at the outset. You've never experienced homosexuality yourself firsthand. You're an outsider to it. What you're seeing is the propaganda. Please, for the sake of your own conscience, talk to a good solid priest about this. And if you're in doubt, have faith in what the Church has taught over what's coming at you from the secular world. Ask yourself, is there any other thing that the Church teaches to be a sin that really is good for us? And if the answer is no, then why doubt that homosexuality is bad for people? I'll say it again: this play needs another act in it. It actually would make a good story even better. Have the main character first learn to get over his inordinate fear of homosexuality by the end of act II, then have him find out that the people he originally thought were wrong (the Church, parents, whatever) were right all along, i.e., that homosexuality leads to a dead end of spiritual death. The plot turns alone would be more interesting dramatically, and a lot less sanctimonious.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:51 PM By Mark from PA
I just read Corinthians 6, verses 9 and 10. Does the Catholic Church believe this literally? Do they teach that people with the homosexual orientation do not go to heaven? Do they go to limbo? This is confusing to me. Christ said nothing about homosexuality but it appears that Paul says that homosexual people will not go to heaven. Do we follow the teaching of Christ or those of Paul when they do not agree?
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 4:46 PM By Liz
Blog Reader: The person who made that comment DID NOT see the play, but got the excerpt from the book. It was not even close to being in context with what was presented.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 6:31 PM By InformedSupporter
I attend the school being discussed, and I went and saw the play as well. First off, I will be honest and say I do support gay rights and have never believed it was a sin. Therefore, I cannot say the play changed me, but honestly, it did touch me.
The play was extremely well done. It did not try to turn the attendees gay, or force the beliefs of the cast/crew on the attendees. All it did is offer an alternative view on a few of the Bible's scriptures. It is not condemning those who do not support homosexuality, nor is it praising those who do. Nor is this play trying to turn the audience gay or be a threat to "souls of [...] children", as was stated earlier in the discussion. I personally do not know anyone who disagreed with the subject of homosexuality and was enlightend by this play, and while that saddens me, it does prove to me that people will believe what they want to believe in and it will not be easily changed.
Second, I understand you are trying to enhance your argument by stating facts you found on our school website, but honestly it is a waste of time. While you think that it is our faculty that is teaching us to accept homosexuals, they aren't at all. I can only name a handful of students, out of our student body of 500+, who did not completely support the idea of this play from the begining. I am sure there would have been a bit more of an uproar had this play not been put on for its support of homosexuality. From what I heard, the play was a hit and everyone loved it (with the exception of a handful of students, as I mentioned before). Our teachers did not teach us to support homosexuality. However, they do teach us to respect everyone. I'm not saying the word "gay does not get tossed around as a derrogitory word, nor am I saying EVERYONE excepts it, but what I am saying is that at Sacred Heart Prep, we will respect the person no matter what their race, religion, or sexual orientation.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:55 PM By JLS
There is a passage in the Book of Daniel, where the Lord shows this great Prophet a view of what some of the leaders of His people were doing. They had a secret room filled with vile pornographic images. Watching a play that dwells on evil activities is pretty much the same order of thing, which God calls an abomination. When the soul is desolate, and is fed abomination, then that soul fills with the vilest evils, and becomes another little precursor of the final "abomination of desolation", that is one of the marks of the Second Coming of Christ and the end of the world.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:20 PM By Talitha Kumi
thank you editors. and thank you eileen "who is that beautiful lady? "; I have heard a similar account from my great aunt at her adult son's bedside. He would say "Why look! there is the Madonna, their is The Madonna!" She didn't doubt what he spoke off just before passing; but she had been concerned about his state of grace (or not) and considers this exclamation to be a gift for her heart from the Immaculate Heart who is also Our Lady of Sorrow. It has been nearly four decades and she is in her 90's and can't wait to see Jesus! alas, she is healthy as can be, but I am certain her health would be compromised if she were to read some of these postings! Sharing your personal story has helped to bouy my heavy heart.
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 9:43 PM By Eileen
Informed Supporter, Are you a baptized Catholic? I am wondering why you are not as informed about your own faith and the Teachings of the Catholic Church as you are informed about a play that is completely contrary to the Magisterial Teachings of the Catholic Church? Maybe you are saying that you are informed about the Teachings of the Catholic Church but that you reject them? Do you reject the Teachings? You said that your teachers do not teach you to support homosexuality but they do teach you to respect everyone. It is good to respect people but respect for God should come first. Where does God fit into this? Where is respect for God? Has anyone informed the teachers and the administration that their silence means consent. How can an adult sit by idly and be silent about a play that is a rejection of what the Catholic Church teaches? Are the teachers and administration informed about the Scripture quote that says it would be better for them to tie a millstone around their neck and throw themselves into a lake than to scandalize one of Christ's little ones? Have they also taught themselves to be silent and ignore that Scripture passage too or have they re-interpreted it to mean something else? Is it more important for those teachers to be silent while children are harmed than to uphold the Church's Teachings? Are these teachers informed about the Catholic Faith? Do they reject the Teachings? Has anyone informed these teachers at a Catholic school that this play completely disrespects Christ, The Sacred Heart, who founded the Catholic Church? You said that this play touched you. Hasn't Christ's ultimate sacrifice for you on a Cross touched you more?
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Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:18 PM By Almond Milk
Disappointed teen you may be appalled at us but we are appalled at this school and these students who are disobeying God and His teachings. So you may find us offensive perhaps you need to seek truth and salvation. As for others who are using holy scripture to condone homosexual lifestyles, they need to honestly seek truth and stop twisting the word of God and teachings of mother church. It is a pity that people continue to be in bad will and continue to condone homosexual lifestyles. It is truly a pity and a waste of precious time. Of all the talents one has, to waste it in ways that only bring scandal and dishonor to God and His plan for humans. That is truly a disgrace.
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 8:52 AM By PROUD SHP STUDENT
I would like to say that I am a senior at Sacred Heart Prep and have been a part of the SHS community for 15 years. I have been through soooo much at this school involving death, sickness, loss, and so much more. No other school could have taken care of me better than Sacred Heart has, so to those of you that don't call this a Catholic school or are praying that your child doesn’t get in to the school, I think you need to rethink that mainly because the teachers here care so much about the student body that I think of them as Christ-like. As for the play, I have seen it and it is truly one of the best plays I have seen at SHP. A major thing about being Catholic is accepting people and loving everyone, God created us all to love each other and when people call each other harsh and hurtful words based on sexual orientation, I don't find that Christ-like what so ever. This is an issue that needs to be addressed. People still use phrases such as "that's so gay" or describe people as "fags" all the time, which I find so disrespectful, I would never want my friends, or siblings to ever hurt someone so badly. This is what the theatre is trying to prevent or stop. This play is done so beautifully! It is simple, honest; it makes you want to support these characters. The screen play is written so well and makes people rethink things. It is written showing both sides so I suggest that before you bash Be Still And Know, you should see some of it and actually give the play a chance. If you allow your child to watch certain TV shows that are filled with drugs, sex, and alcohol, you should allow your child to see this play. It teaches you something and gives hope to those people who are actually experiencing it. It shows them it’s ok to be yourself, and to love yourself for who you are.
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 9:33 AM By Zach
MarkF, your reply boggles my mind. "Why question?" Because without questioning you're no better than the countless people in history who committed atrocities simply because their superiors told them to.
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:12 AM By Jim
Mark from PA, you seem to think 1Cor6 9&10 refers to homosexual orientation as opposed to practicing homosexuals. The original Greek word refers back to Leviticus - which concerns active homosexuality - not orientation.
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:48 AM By Jim
INFORMED SUPPORTER, can you provide some of the alternative views from the Bible the play dealt with? thanks,
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 3:46 PM By Mark from PA
That was an excellent post PROUD SHP STUDENT. You should be proud. I hope that you have touched the hearts of some of the people here. I went to Catholic school too and was always taught that prejudice and discrimnation were wrong. I quote, "A major thing about being Catholic is accepting people and loving everyone." This is how I was taught also. Another quote from you, "It shows them it's OK to be yourself, and to love yourself for who you are." These are words to live by.
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:21 PM By JLS
Zach, you're failing to follow your own advice to question.
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:06 PM By Almond Milk
Pride is the root of all evil and being proud of homosexuality is truly evil and nothing to be proud of. So if your pride leads you to defend this immortal mental disorder, then be careful because if one is lead by sin, then one is lead away from salvation in Christ. The choice is yours. You are free to choose any path to hell, it's like letting the blind lead the blind, you allow your human understandings to lead you than you will stop growing spiritually and in virtue.
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:26 PM By Mark from PA
Jim, I don't know if when Corinthians was written that people even knew about sexual orientation or the homosexual orientation. I wonder if the translation of this word was changed and it was once another word. Was this the word used when the Bible was first translated into English? The word may be misused here.
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Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:24 PM By Concerned
Eileen. In response to your answer, you ask where God comes into this. I believe that the Informed Student answers this questions when they said how at the school they are taught to respect everyone. And if you, Eileen believe that respecting people is important, then why can't you respect someone who is homosexual? That's where God comes in. God's main message is to love everyone after him and be God-like. The students who went to that play are God-like by not discriminating against these people. And if one discriminates against these people isn't that rebelling against the word of God? This school embodies the values of God and Jesus Christ, and understands the sacrifice of Christ. If you claim to truly understand God's message and truly follow it, one must accept everyone for who they are because that is truly God's message.
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Posted Friday, March 06, 2009 9:11 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
10:44 PM By SHP student,
There is nothing wrong with a man loving another man, in fact Jesus commands that; however you are confusing loving with having sex, and there is absolutely much wrong with that.
I am a batchelor, and I at one time accepted all the lies you have accepted, but in my case it was that the sex urge is so strong, God can't possibly condemn me for satisfying that urge. I was wrong then, and you are wrong now. I will pray that Our Lord and His Mother will somehow penetrate all the errors you have been taught with Their truths.
In reading the pro-homosexual arguments, I have come to the conclusion that their minds are closed, no matter how much we properly quote scripture and even the Vicars of Christ, only prayer will open some of their minds to the Truth.
God bless, yours in Thier Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Friday, March 06, 2009 9:45 PM By Anne T.
When someone tells me that I should have to actually see a movie or play before judging it, I tell them I don't have to be sprayed by a skunk to know one stinks.
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Posted Friday, March 06, 2009 10:00 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
1:13 PM By Kell Brigan,
I believe what you are asking for from Rome is "Interdiction". Look it up in the Catholic Dictionary.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 5:41 AM By Mark from PA
JLS,. I went to 12 years of Catholic school. I never heard one word said against homosexuality and I never was taught that gay people were inferior beings. You were raised in another faith. It appears that you learned differently about this when you were growing up. You have brought what you learned about homosexuality with you into your Catholic faith it seems. I was not exposed to a whole lot of homophobia growing up and what little I saw I considered sinful and un-Christian. Some people see homophobia as something righteous but I see it as un-Christian. I think some of the priests on this site need to understand that a lot of Catholics feel the way that I do.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:44 AM By JLS
PA, your guesswork is not correct at all. You are confusing religion with culture, which imposed a silence on sexual matters. Your experience in Catholic schools reflects that social era, and evidences the problem of some areas of Catholicism choosing to follow the world instead of the Savior. Like I've posted often, when I hit college in the mid sixties, I soon learned that there were two polarities of coeds with Catholic school backgrounds ... one was the liberated ones who radiated their Catholic school cultures of "if it feels good, do it" and "there is nothing wrong with free sex"; then there were the virtuous Catholic coeds who would make the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary happy. You seem to have come from a Catholic subculture that kept its hands over its ears and eyes; that's where the corruption comes from, from denial, from refusing to deal with issues, from painting up a fantasy world.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 10:27 AM By Almond Milk
JLS is correct PA is confusing religion with culture. Growing up I didn't have to hear often that embracing homosexuality was sinful to know and understand that it was. Holy scriptures and our Mother church contains those truths and only the faithful will understand that. The truth is there for those who don't have certain ill driven agenda's in their heart to carry out, the truth is there for those who really seek truth but for those who want to fool them selves than that is another option people can choose. Hopefully people will choose truth in Christ. The wholeness of the truth is in our faith, even if there is corruption that sneaked in, the truth will always be spoken, that is God's mercy for His people.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 12:09 PM By Anne T.
I have read many of Eileen's post, Concerned, and I do not believe she is disrespectful at all toward people who have same-sex temptations (or orientation if you prefer). Her posts having been loving and according to Majesterial teachings -- more so than mine at times. Some people get upset with her merely because she tells people sin is sin, no matter how much they are in denial. So did the Prophets in the Bible and the Saints. In fact, I wished I had the patience she has shown.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:06 PM By Jim H
What will correct the misdirection that the Sacred Heart Preparatory School of Atherton has taken regarding the Catholic moral teaching of homosexuality? Their Board of Trustees should reconsider who they have placed in charge of the school and its curriculum.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 7:20 PM By Atherton Resident
I think that everyone who has a problem with this issue should speak to the Director of Sacred Heart. He could put a stop to all this by putting out a statement regarding where the school stands on homosexuality and what parents can expect in the future. Parents then can make a choice on whether they want to continue sending their children to SHP. All of this going back and forth is not productive for anyone.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 7:24 PM By SHP09
As a student of SHP who has taken a mandatory class on "Social Ethics," everything we learned was related to Catholic Social Teaching. We constantly used CST to justify our research on various social issues, including same sex marriage. There is no doubt that the Catholic Church opposes gay marriage and same-sex relationships. However, it does teach that homosexual persons deserve respect, justice and pastoral care. I believe this play's goal is to show that homosexuals should be treated with dignity and respect. It is not trying to impose the idea that same sex marriage should be legal. Though the Catholic Church may condemn homosexual acts, it does not condemn the individual. In that sense, I see no reason as to why this play should not be performed at a Catholic School that promotes the dignity of the human person.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 8:05 PM By Peggy
"Growing up I didn't have to hear often that embracing homosexuality was sinful to know and understand that it was," but perhaps if I had been homosexually inclined, or raised in a different setting or by different parents, things might have been different. One of the "ill driven agendas" is the arrogant presumption that if someone doesn't grow up thinking as I do that they must have an "ill driven agenda of the heart".
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 8:14 PM By Nativity Parishoner
To SHP09, That was so beautifully said! Thank you for such a wonderful commentary.
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:14 PM By SHP Parent & Alumni
Everyone deserves respect. Many of the staff are gay or lesbians; they are wonderful teachers and are providing a their students with a superior education. I believe that whether a teacher or administrator is gay, straight or liberal or conservation should be confidential and it has no place in the classroom. SHP is cramming homosexuality down everyones throat and people have had enough. This is a Catholic School - most of us thought this is what we signed up for. Permission slips to see the play should have been sents out. We are talking about minor children. Who is making the decisions ? Where is the Board or the Director of the School ????
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Posted Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:50 PM By JLS
SHP09, there is no dignity in homosexualism, but the opposite.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 12:17 AM By New Wineskin
Our Lord did not come to do away with "the law"; (the ten commandments) but to fulfill it in His own Divine person, redeem us by dying and shedding His blood in atonement for us and sending the Holy Spirit to confirm us in sanctifying grace. Our goal is not to be lost, lawless people but followers of the Savior. Our Lord said that any man who looks upon a woman lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart, or, if your eye is your undoing cut it out (in other words look away & avoid the occasions of sin) better to enter heaven with one eye than go to hell with both. Purity, a clean conscience -- chastity is what we all must fight for to get to heaven. The Good Lord wants us free! People do not recognize the bondage that occurrs from sexual sin. The best means of escape are full, humble confession and Holy Communion immediately afterward (don't leave the church without receiving the Body and Blood of Christ -- yes we are that weak -- otherwise we will fall before the next day). Holy communion seals your confession and the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of JESUS within you is the source of all strength. Attending daily mass is the best preventive medicine against future falls. With the Rosary you will witness miracles in your life and others -- say it everyday! Wear blessed sacramentals -- the Blessed Mother promised St Katherine Laboure at Paris in 1830 "great graces to those who will wear the Miraculous Medal around the neck") -- the brown scapular of Mt Carmel ("those who die wearing it will not suffer the eternal fire of hell") -- the crucifix. Blessed objects drive away evil and obtain for us actual graces. Don't be discouraged we are all in this together. Even if you have given up on yourself JESUS hasn't. You will break free and become a great saint. If I have learned anything from the big mess I made of my life the secret is don't give up -- with JESUS things will get better -- just hold on -- all tribulation will pass.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 1:13 AM By Lisa T.
FOR GRISHA. You’re right, the Church does need to be everywhere however Most Holy Redeemer parish is far from a true Catholic Church.*******LET’S SAY THERE’S AN ALCOHOLIC HOSPITAL LOCATED IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE 97% OF THE POPULATION ARE SUFFERING FROM ALCOHOLISM. The alcoholics are proud to be alcoholics and have completely embraced the alcoholic lifestyle. The neighborhood totally promotes alcoholic pride. Let’s say 97% of the hospital staff (doctors, nurses, etc.) And hospital administration are also alcoholics and most of them think that alcoholism is just, oh such a wonderful disease to have so, they really don’t feel the need to medically treat the alcoholic patients in the hospital because as they see it, alcoholism is a gift from god which should be celebrated, not treated or cured. ****** the hospital president and his advisory board have gone so far as to allow the leasing out of hospital facilities to alcoholic groups who celebrate and promote the alcoholic lifestyle for their events. At these alcoholic events held in hospital facilities alcoholics are engaging in alcoholic behavior which includes getting drunk and holding bingos where quarts of Vodka and other hard liquor are given out as prizes ***** Now, the other 3% of the hospital staff at the hospital who aren’t suffering from alcoholism don’t do or say anything to stop this medical malpractice and neglect because they are recovering alcoholics themselves and most don’t really believe that there is anything wrong with alcoholism and the ones who do are afraid to say anything. *************at this kind of hospital no one would be cured and the poor souls who admitted themselves with the intent to be cured would more than likely sink deeper into their alcoholic addiction. ****************it is the responsibility of managers/owner of the hospital to shut it down and direct the alcoholics who want to be cured to a hospital where they will actually get the treatment they need. *************** Most Holy Redeemer parish is the alcoholic hospital and the manager/owner is the bishop.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:29 AM By Portola Valley
Wow! Thanks SHP09. Great comments!
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:56 AM By Mark from PA
JLS, you speak of "their Catholic school cultures of 'if it feels good, do it' and 'there is nothing wrong with free sex." Is this a joke? It seems that you don't have experience with Catholic schools. That was an ignorant statement. I went to 12 years of Catholic school and also have spent countless hours volunteering in Catholic schools so your statement makes no sense to someone who has been there.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 11:49 AM By SHPParent
Well done SHP09.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 12:00 PM By SF
USF has a flyer posted advertising the performance of Be Still and Know today at 2:00 at Presentation Theatre. I plan to attend, and maybe those of you who have questions about it could try to make it as well. Maybe we could then have more accurate and honest debate about this play in particular. From what I've read on this post, there are a lot of opinions but a lot of questions as well. MHR also announced the play at the 10:00 mass this am
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 12:53 PM By Grisha
As far as the charge of Catholic schools promoting a culture of free sex, I'm reminded of the time my daughter kept two of her 7th grade "bad boys" after school for not doing their work. One of them told her "We can't concentrate because we're in lust with Luanne." (!!!!) Luanne being an 8th grade girl. Her reply was "Throughout high school and college and in the world of work, you'll meet women who you find attractive. If your lustful thoughts about them are so out of control that you can't do your work, you won't be successful in life. One of the advantage of CATHOLIC SCHOOL is the we'll help you control you lustful thoughts so you WILL be successful in life. That's why I'm sending you to see Father." Guess what - After a little chat with the pastor they both squared away. Yesterday, today and tomorrow, Catholic schools are great!
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 1:12 PM By Grisha
Lisa T: Let's take your scenario a step further. Everything about the neighborhood and hospital is as you describe it. Then a Catholic church opens up next door to the hospital. Some of the alcoholics start staggering into the Church. Some say "I jushst wanna slit her and shink." Others say things like "I washd raised as a Cathsoilic but I haven been in Chursh fer a while. Kin I shtay a bit?" Perhaps another says "Father, I love God, love my neighbor and love my vodka!" Should the pastor say to all of them no, go away, you can't approach the alter of God until you sober and have rejected the drinking lifestyle!" Or, should he follow the pastrol practice of meeting the person where they are, not where they ideally should be?
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 1:17 PM By Almond Milk
Peggy you mock the church! I don't care if you mock me, I am just a servant of the Lord. Now everyone here speaks of respect but ultimately the real respect well deserving is for our Lord. We are merely specks, who are we to say we all deserve respect? God created me, if I disrespect my Lord, then am I better than God? Better to get more respect than we give to Him? I say no! One has to not allow pride rule our actions and words. Pride is thinking we all deserve respect, more than the one who created us and that even when we sin, we still expect that respect. What we need is dignity of human life, that is what we all need. To have dignity and love for one another. The respect comes when one does the will of God, respect is giving of ourselves and dieing of our sinful inclinations! How can anyone have respect for sinful behavior by condoning it? Not the faithful that is for sure! Respect is not condoning damnation but lovingly showing the real truth and the face of Jesus to all, not hiding it or covering Him up. Jesus came as He did and towards the end, No one gave Him the real respect He deserved, instead they spat at Him, they mocked His ways and message of salvation. He is our salvation unless this world turns away from it's wicked ways, we will never reap the rewards in Christ.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 1:23 PM By Almond Milk
Also; We can have a play that expresses love to all children not a play that chooses a type of disorder and then uses it to condone that immortal activity/behavior. What homosexuals need is true physiological mental help. They need us to help them and guide their spirituality in Christ towards healing, to help them embrace a chaste lifestyle, to understand healthier ways to relationships like a heterosexual needs to understand God's plan in avoiding promiscuous sexual behavior etc, learning to respect self, the temple of Christ, learning that we are created in the image of God and what that means. There are healthier
choices, free will to choose them and choosing truth and Christ's salvation plan for humanity that will help all humanity with all types of sins that human's are
pronged to fall into temptation. True love for these fallen brothers and sisters is to have programs that will help them choose to embrace another path, not the one they are pronged to embrace out of fleshly or mental desires.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 1:52 PM By shpparent
As as parent I am proud that shp has not only continued o to be a force in education and the preperation of young people with the best academic standards to the next level .But to the brave and insightful leadership of the shp director and principal and staff for showing our young people that God's love should have no boundries and qualifications. For those of you living in the past and in firm belief of the memories of what you believe a catholic education needs to be. You need to move on and look at the issues in the world today and the suffering that exist because we cant seem to be tolerant of issues that are purely personal and need to remain that way.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 2:44 PM By Anne T.
Wow, Lisa T., your parable about MHR parish is just great. I wonder if Grisha will get it.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 3:52 PM By Eileen
Concerned, I am glad that you care about discrimination and cruelty to others. We have to care about how we treat one another. We also should be spiritually and intellectually honest or at least admit, that we do not care about intellectual or spiritual honesty. We should just admit that we reject the Church's Teachings that same sex acts are intrinsically disordered. We do not show respect for anyone if we sanction sin. We discriminate when we look the other way and close our eyes to the fact that homosexual acts offend God. We discriminate when we do not clarify to our youth that while God does want us to love one another, that love does not mean same sex acts. Did this play stress to love one another but then also highly stress that same sex acts are contrary to the Teachings of the Catholic Church? This is a Catholic website and if you respect the Teachings of the Catholic Church you should not have an issue with anyone learning the Truth. Everyone deserves the truth, not just homosexuals either. The topic here pertains to homosexuals though. The beauty of the Catholic Church is that all of the Teachings benefit and respect everyone and they apply equally to everyone. There is no discriminatory application of the Truth. There is, always, an age old new agenda that seeks to parse out pieces of the Gospel and then try to redistribute and market it into a new meaning. The marketers of this play are not just interested in teaching people to love one another. They know exactly what they are doing. Some of the impressionable students at this Catholic School have demonstrated that their agenda has been successful. Why didn't the play include the very powerful scene or reminder that same sex acts are offensive to God, that they are sinful, and that they are contrary to the Teachings of the Catholic Church? This is discrimination towards the **full truth**! They do not really fit God in and it is done deliberately by playing on the emotions of impressionable children.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 4:41 PM By Mark from PA
Almond Milk, have you not been listening to the young people here? From what they have said this play is not about condoning immoral activity/behavior. This play is not about encouraging promiscuous sexual behavior. The play is about respecting people, encouraging tolerance and not bullying kids. Do you think it helps gay teens to be told that they are evil and need mental help? You don't think gay teens should be condoned but why shouldn't they be respected and accepted too? Gay people are going to be with us no matter how much some want to wish them away.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 4:51 PM By Peggy
Almond Milk, why do you accuse me of mocking the Church? Where is the respect in that? The Church teaches that "Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it." Did you bother to ask me before you accused me of mocking the Lord? I don't presume you have an "ill driven agenda of the heart" just because you misunderstood my post. That is the very essence of what I wrote in my post. If your wild accusation is an example of the kind of "help" you seek to offer people, why do you think it would be more helpful than a millstone around a child's neck? Why did you not question before accusing? Did you presume your own ideas to be beyond question? And no, it's not sinful "pride" that we all deserve respect. It's basic Church teaching that we all deserve respect, having each been created in the image of God. It's God given. Likewise, our freedom is from God, and God respects our freedom so very much that he permits us to sin. That's respect. That's true love. Homosexuality can be as sinful as can be, but it doesn't mean that homosexual person are not to "be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity".
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 4:52 PM By Elizabeth R
Eileen, The play did show those very powerful scenes! In fact, to the very end, there were those who expressed very vocal objections to homosexuality. They never waivered from their beliefs and were very clear on exactly why. The characters who played these parts were some of the best and most memorable actors/actresses in the play. So, the "full truth" was definitely portrayed. And the session after the play was very thought-provoking. The book and the play were truly different. It's OK to judge the book if you've read it, but as others have commented, you really needed to see the play to be able to make comments on it.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 5:02 PM By Elizabeth R
To Almond Milk and JLS, You did not see the play, so please do not make assumptions and so harshly criticize. Go ahead and debate the subject, but please leave the play, the school, and most importantly, the children out of your discussions. Would Jesus be acting as you are?
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 5:23 PM By JLS
Grisha's got it down to the basic situation. Meet the sinner where they're at ... but Grisha does not add the second and critical part, which is to lead the sinner to Christ.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 6:24 PM By Mark Davenport
The problem is that stereotyping and badmouthing and bullying people does not lead anyone to Christ. It just drives people away from the Church. How many people have been driven out of their Christian faiths by prejudice and hate? To me this is a sin too.
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:36 PM By JLS
"Nevertheless, increasing numbers of people today, even within the Church, are bringing enormous pressure to bear on the Church to accept the homosexual condition as though it were not disordered and to condone homosexual activity. Those within the Church who argue in this fashion often have close ties with those with similar views outside it. These latter groups are guided by a vision opposed to the truth about the human person, which is fully disclosed in the mystery of Christ. They reflect, even if not entirely consciously, a materialistic ideology which denies the transcendent nature of the human person as well as the supernatural vocation of every individual." -- Letter To The Bishops Of The Catholic Church On The Pastoral Care Of Homosexual Persons -- Given at Rome, 1 October 1986.
JOSEPH Cardinal RATZINGER Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
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Posted Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:14 PM By Eileen
Elizabeth R. The response of many of the students should be enough of a red flag and warning. Archbishop George Niederauer certainly thought it was. That is what you should be defending. Elizabeth, do you accept the Church's Teaching that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered? What is your personal stake in defending this play? Is it true that many of the teachers at the school are homosexual and lesbian? A parent commented that this was the case. This parent did not say anything derogatory towards the teachers but this parent is questioning why students need to be informed about their teacher's sexual preferences. Why do these students need to know the sexual preference of their instructors? Elizabeth this is an agenda and if you can't see this then you must be a part of it. The subject of homosexuality should not be the prime focus method to teach love and respect. Cruelties and injustices are also a part of our fallen nature. When students are correctly taught their Catholic Faith they will automatically know how to love and respect God first and then others. There will always be people who choose to be cruel. That is called Original sin. We should not be teaching love, respect and obedience from the premise or foundation of a disorder. We are Catholics and our faith in imparting these virtues is in the Teachings of our Church. You either accept this or you think that you have a better way than Christ who founded the Catholic Church. It really does not matter if the play is done a little differently than the book. Once the camel gets his nose in the tent the body will soon follow. Pretty soon you are sharing the tent. Elizabeth, it sounds like some of the students are now sharing the tent. One of the parents also commented that homosexuality is being shoved down the throats of the students. They did not send their children to a Catholic school so that they could be slowly... "but surely" focused and indoctrinated about homosexuality.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 12:18 AM By SHPActor
Elizabeth R, you have it exactly right.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 5:27 AM By Jim
Mark from PA,
In the Greek version of the Old Testament called the Septuagint, written several hundred years before Paul, the words referring to active homosexuality in Leviticus are arsenos koiten. This strongly indicates that Greek speaking Jews had already nearly fused the two root words together to form arsenokoites. Paul’s later writings, such as 1 Cor6:9 actually did fuse the two words. You don’t see arsenokoites in classical Greek because it is of Jewish coinage.
It is quite plausible that Paul uses arsenokoites and not other Greek words, in order to make clear that opposition to homosexual practice was rooted in Levitical moral law and Jewish understanding that active homosexuality was always wrong. Using other Greek words would not have rooted opposition in Jewish Levitical moral law and could convey an ambiguous, nuanced moral attitude reflective of Greek/Roman culture
The connection to Levitical moral law is further strengthened by its use in 1Tm1:10 where arsenokoites are called law breakers.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 5:39 AM By Jim
Mark from PA, You seem to think orientation would have made a difference.According to many prominent bibles, Leviticus 20:13 translates as “men who lie with a male as with a woman.” There are no qualifications. Nothing in the words themselves indicating they refer to only certain forms of homosexual acts. . The Old Testament book Leviticus prohibited all homosexuality. Other sins mentioned in the same Levitical passage are also unqualified - adultery, bestiality, child sacrifice. They are always wrong and grave in nature and not just wrong under certain conditions or because or orientatio. Although there are prohibitions in Leviticus regarding male-female incest, there is no mention of male-male incest. Why? Perhaps because it is already covered in Leviticus 20:13. Furthermore, other ancient writings of the period did indicate that the idea of orientation was known.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 5:43 AM By Kell Brigan
Re. Lisa T.'s parable -- The hospital chaplain also loves to quote Bible passages about how great drinking is. Hey, Noah got drunk, and he's a hero! Even God accepts alcohol as a sacrifice! (We'll just forget about all those passages about moderation and all those warnings about drinking in Proverbs...)
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:31 AM By Jim
Mark from PA, I disagree with you speculation that orientation was unknown to the ancients. I think this is a form of temporal arrogance.
Current theories of homosexual development are essentially compatible with Paul´s own view of sin. In Romans 5 and 7 Paul speaks of sin as an innate impulse operating in the human body, transmitted by an ancestor human, and never entirely within the control of human will. This is precisely how most homosexual-affirming advocates describe homosexual orientation today.
Theories about a congenital basis for homoerotic attraction were widespread in Paul´s day, as was the existence of men whose sexual desire was oriented exclusively toward other males. We may have refined the view of exclusive innate attraction to members of the same sex, but the basic elements of this theory were already in place in antiquity and still made little difference to critical assessments of homosexual behavior.
Greco-Roman theories (Platonic, Aristotelian, Hippocratic, and even astrological) existed that posited at least some congenital basis for some forms of homosexual attraction, particularly on the part of males desiring to be penetrated. These theories included: a creation splitting of male-male or female-female binary humans; a particular mix of male and female sperm elements at conception; a chronic disease of the mind or soul influenced indirectly by biological factors and made hard to resist by socialization; an inherited disease analogous to a mutated gene; sperm ducts leading to the anus; and the particular alignment of heavenly constellations at the time of one’s birth (see , “Does the Bible Regard Same-Sex Intercourse as Intrinsically Sinful,” in Christian Sexuality [ed. R. Saltzman; Kirk House, 2003], pp. 140-52).
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 10:11 AM By Jim
Alum, The elimination of Levitical dietary and purity laws was directly linked to Christ’s Passion, Death, and Resurrection. Jesus fulfilled the law and broke down the barriers between God and man, Jew and Gentile which scripture says the dietary and purity laws represented. It was these separations the Old Testament laws symbolically represented (e.g. Mt 27:50-51, Eph 2:11-18, Acts 10: 28-29, 11:4-18, Lev 20:24-26). Since these separations no longer exist, there is no need for the laws they represent.
When Jesus says He will fulfill the law, He means His death would be the perfect sacrifice that would unfold, fulfill, and perfect the Law and place its spiritual principles in our hearts. Passages in the New Testament clearly state Christians are no longer held bound to the purity, dietary, and sacrificial laws e.g. (Acts 10:10-16, Mark 7:18-23, Heb 10:8-12). Given this it is difficult to understand how some can insist Christians are going against the Bible when the Bible itself says Christians are no longer held bound. But what separations did adultery represent in the Old Testament that would be torn-down by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross? None! How was adultery made acceptable by the Cross? It wasn’t! The same applies to active homosexuality, incest, bestiality and the other grave immoralities.
The Levitical prohibition against active homosexuality is placed squarely with adultery, child sacrifice, bestiality, incest, and cursing your parents. Christ's death and resurrection undid none of these moral prohibitions. Jesus does not eliminate the Levitical moral laws – if anything he makes them stricter. He fulfills them. With the coming of Jesus, Christianity’s moral code progresses us closer to God’s created intent, i.e. before Man’s fall. He forbids divorce, he raises the status of women, he calls a lustful eye equivalent to adultery, and he says we are in danger of hell if we curse anyone. Allowing active homosexuality does not move us closer to God’s created intent. It would regress us beyond the distortions from God’s original intent that were permitted in the Old Testament - like divorce and the diminution of women. Unlike purity and diet
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 10:12 AM By Jim
Alum, Unlike purity and dietary laws, the sins of Leviticus 20: 9-16 carried the death penalty in the Old Testament to signify grave immorality. Unlike the behaviors governed by the purity and dietary laws, there are no death penalty related behaviors in the Old Testament that were later made acceptable in the New Testament. Death is a far more serious penalty than ritual cleansing or temporary separation from the community – the penalties for breaking dietary/purity laws. Although Jesus eliminated the physical death penalty for these sins, the Old Testament death penalty pre-figured eternal damnation - and this still looms as an outcome for the unrepentant sinner.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 10:22 AM By Almond Milk
Elizabeth R why do you assume that I did not see the play? Anyway don't answer me, because it does not matter if I did or didn't. To answer everyone here who object my comments go back and re-read them. But before you do, pray and repent. The faith is not up for debate, it is what it is "Truth". Only the truth will set us free and to be free is to seek truth genuinely. Anyhoo with all due respect, your comments were interesting. I still stand by mine, no debate at all, I stand by faith (and what God has revealed to His church and faithful) and I pray to never twist the truth or water it down in any way. God have mercy on us all. Thanks for your posts to me, I may not agree with them but I did read them. There you got your few seconds of respect from me. God has my whole life of respect, all of me and I hope I can give him more because He is truly worthy. God bless you with his graces.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 2:46 PM By Mark from PA
That was very interesting Jim. In truth, we never read Leviticus in school. We studied the 10 commandments and the commandments of the Church and Bible history but never Leviticus. I knew nothing of those rules as we were not taught them. We were taught that the lepers were considered unclean but were not taught that women were sometimes unclean and never heard anything against homosexuality. Lisa, homosexuals are not alcoholics. Your comparison could be offensive to some. Some gay people are alcoholics but not all.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 3:39 PM By Grisha
And some straight people are alcoholics but not all.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 5:09 PM By Kell Brigan
Apparently being homosexual also makes it impossible to recognize the difference between literal and metaphorical ideas...
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 6:17 PM By JLS
Jim, that is a super interesting statement that the dietary laws had something to do with Christ's Passion and Resurrection. I've wondered for decades and not had the insight until now. Thanks for posting this gem.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 8:23 PM By Veronica
As a hospice nurse in San Francisco, I wonder if SHP teaches their students about AIDS; 2/3 of those who contract HIV are gay men.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:30 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Mark Davenport, "The problem is that stereotyping and badmouthing and bullying people does not lead anyone to Christ. It just drives people away from the Church.", perhaps so, however condoning and even encouraging them in sin definitely leads them and the one doing so to Eternal Death!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 11:13 PM By Anne T.
Evidently, Lisa T., Grisha did not get it. He is still on "the Merry-go-round of Denial", if you know what I mean.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:06 AM By Patrice
Worldwide, it's sex between men and women that accounts for 2/3 of new infections. Only 5-10% of new infections worldwide are due to sex between men. And between lesbians, there's almost no transmission. (The U.S. is just a few percent of the world population.)
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:12 AM By S
Veronica, lesbian women have the lowest rate of HIV AIDS
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:08 AM By RR
Mark from PA: Just because you didn't learn something about the Catholic faith in your 12 years of Catholic education doesn't mean it is not a teaching or dogma of the Church. Your Church catechism should not stop after your senior year of high school. I learn something new about the Catholic faith every day because I have a desire to learn more. The truth is out there if you have a will and desire to find it. Some people do not want to know the truth because sometimes it is hard to live by and accept. But, we must all educate ourselves about the Church & Church teaching. Some people do not want to learn and put there fingers in their ears and yell, "LA LA LA LA" because they think if they don't hear or know something then ignorance is their excuse. Ignorance is no excuse in God's eyes when there is no effort to learn the truth. My advise, and I follow it myself, is to read traditional, GOOD Catholic articles on the internet and to read traditional Catholic books. I have found out more about the Catholic faith, dogmas, and Church teachings in my adult life than I ever did all through my years in a Catholic school. I still continue to learn every day. I tell myself that every day I have to learn at least two Church teaching or things I didn't know about the faith. I find great treasures every day. I recommend this to every Catholic because their is no greater gift from God than the gift of Himself, The Church, & faith.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:18 AM By Mark from PA
RR, I feel that I do learn. I get articles from Voice of the Faithful and also the column "Pontifications" on the internet. I also go to Bible study and often read the gospels as well as Sunday Mass, daily Mass, once or twice a week or more on occasion. I also do Eucharistic adoration on occasion. So we must always learn. It is eye opening though, I teach Religion in our parish and last year when the lesson was discussing Benediction not one student knew what it was.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:35 AM By Kell Brigan
Because this seems like a good place: I discovered a great article from 2006, originally from the New Oxford Review, now shadowed at Virtue Online (Orthodox Anglicans, aka. soon to be Catholics? Anyway...) Google: virtue online "Ronald G. Lee"" for the URL. The article is "The Books Were a Front for the Porn: The Truth About the Homosexual Rights Movement." Yeah, it's anecdotal, but that don't mean it ain't true. I'd give the article a PG rating (all text, but he pulls no punches). In regard to this discussion, it's interesting that Fr. McNeil's biblical "analysis" is still being used, i.e. in this play.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:00 PM By Lisa T.
Yes, Anne T. I know exactly what you mean. Some people will never get it.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:38 PM By RR
Mark from PA: That is so sad about not one person knowing what Benediction was. How old are the students that you teach?
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:35 PM By JLS
PA, Voice of the Faithful is a group trying to eliminate the Catholic hierarchy.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:01 PM By Grisha
JLS - VOTF is trying to SAVE the Catholic hierarchy!
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:05 PM By Kell Brigan
My two cents: what I've read (i.e. recent news), VOTF has sided with people in favor of women's ordination, and has proposed economic changes similar (in some people's opinions) to the bill recently proposed (and rapidly deproposed) in CT for making church decisions and finances in control of a board of lay persons. They've also refused in the past to "sign on" to protests of Cathlic bishops in Mass. re. marriage protection amendments to the State constitution there. Anyone who knows more than I do (which is a whole lot of people), please correct this as needed. So far, they sound like an anti-Magisterium group to me.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:22 PM By RR
Mark from PA: Voice is the Faithful is NOT where you should be finding good Catholic information. I had never heard of them before. I looked up information on the internet today on this group. Mark, this is not where you go to find good Catholic reading. To me it sounds like a so-called Catholic cult that wants lay people to make decisions for the Church. The Pope is the head of the Church and makes the decisions and teachings which are passed down to Bishops. The laity does not belong in making Church rules. There would be total chaos in the Church. I suggest reading a book called " Church Teachng". TAN Books is the publisher. Is written by Fr. John Laux, M.A. This is where you will learn so much about the Church. It is written so that you can always reference certain Church teachings. Books like this book is where you need to find TRUE CHURCH TEACHING. I guarantee you will not find Church doctrine or Church teaching is this sect you are referring to. You get lay Catholic thoughts and ideas there, but NOT Church teaching.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:12 PM By Grisha
Kell Brigan: I get the VOTF e-mail newsletter. While I don't read it carefully, they are NOT about women's ordination, gay marriage etc, their focus is almost 100% on financial and moral (i.e. protection of children) accountability by the American hierarchy. They have a lot of affiliates which may take different positions on all kinds of matters, but the National organization is single issue outfit.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:14 PM By Anne T.
Patrice, the statistics do not matter, whether there are more or less diseases between homosexuals or heterosexuals. What matters is that promiscuous behavior, whether between men and men, women and women, or men and women are causing these diseases. Don't you get it? No one is defending fornication or adultery between heterosexuals here either, Patrice. When I was young there were only about five venereal diseases, all curable. Now there are many more, noncurable. I have never had a venereal disease, so I am not exactly stupid, although some of it was by the grace of God, but some of it was because of my behavior.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:24 PM By Kell Brigan
Re. VOTF and the CT proposal: if I wanted the Missouri Synod, I'd be Lutheran. I haven't found anyone yet who can tell me how VOTF's would create anything but just another Protestant sect. They claim to be working on behalf of abuse victims (what about all the Protestant abuse victims?), but what does the ordination of women have to do with abuse victims?
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:23 AM By JLS
Voice of the (un)Faithful is agenda driven to deconstruct the Catholic Church. It seeks to do to the authority structure what the state legislature of Connecticut attempted to do this past week but was stopped by the Bishop. Fourthousand faithful Catholics rallied under all the bishops of the state a couple days ago, and held a public protest at the capital building. The effect of the proposed legislation would have been to replace the bishops with a state controlled board of directors for the Church in Connecticut. This is effectively what Voice of the Faithful wants to do, although without the state government. The state legislature pulled the bill, but the Church in Connecticut is remaining wary of the attempt to destroy the Church.
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:01 PM By Kell Brigan
Citing a source: National Catholic Register 9/06 "National Catholic Register: Voice of the un-Faithful? Lay group under fire for promoting dissent" by Tom McFeely
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Posted Sunday, February 14, 2010 4:37 AM By Emmaus Pilgrim
JLS staunch defender of the Unam Sanctam Catholicam Apostolicam Ecclesiam, may I read to you the words of one of the greatest men of the US of A : Millions of men, women, and children, since the introduction of christianity, has been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned: yet we have not advanced one inch towards Humanity. What has been the effect of Coercion? To make one half of the world Fools, and the other half Hypocrites, to support error and roguery all over the earth" Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826. George Washington died without priest, minister or pastor at his deathbed. A Deist, but not a Christian.
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