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Published: July 23, 2009
“I'm not surprised, the times that we live in”
Exorcism makes a comeback
 The July 8 issue of Catholic San Francisco covered the 2009 book The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist, by Matt Baglio. The Rite, describes the training and practice of San Francisco-born Father Gary Thomas, a contemporary Bay Area exorcist. In 2005, Father Thomas was sent by San Jose Bishop Patrick McGrath to study in Rome under master exorcist Capuchin Father Carmine De Filippis. Father Thomas observed 80 exorcisms as Fr. De Filippis apprentice.
From the Catholic San Francisco, article: “What sets exorcists apart from priests who are skeptical of the ministry may be their biblical belief in the physical reality of evil and the power of prayer and the sacraments to vanquish it.”
The skeptical attitude is not unique to the United States. On July 15, 2009, Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera, archbishop of Mexico City, addressed a conference of exorcists. The cardinal warned that the existence of the devil must be taken as fact, without either exaggerating or minimizing his actions out of skepticism or credulity taken to the extreme.
Since his return to the United States, Father Thomas has prayed the rite in five cases, two of which are ongoing. Before the Church will authorize an exorcism, there is a period of discernment, where other possible causes of the victim’s suffering must be excluded. Father Thomas’ team includes a psychologist, a psychiatrist, and a physician, as well as a second priest. After the period of discernment, says another trained exorcist, Father Tom Euteneuer of Human Life International, “A report is made to the diocese, and then the bishop must authorize a solemn exorcism.”
Both priests agree that for demonic possession to take place “a door must be opened.” This opening can be involuntary. Such doors include the use of ouija boards and other occult practices. Both also agree that abuse, violence, and the use of pornography can cause spiritual wounds through which something other than the physical can enter. Father Thomas says: “People think that Ouija boards are harmless. They are not, because what people do is they begin tapping into a realm that's beyond science, that's beyond the physical nature of human existence.”
For Father Euteneuer, some consequences are apparent. He considers a demonic presence in the abortion industry to be obvious.
“Abortion is a demonic industry,” he told the Philadelphia Bulletin. “Abortion is blood sacrifice of innocent blood to the devil. The clinics are like temples, the doctors are like priests, the medical table is like their altar. It’s a ritualized sacrifice. They have a dogma called choice, a hierarchy called Planned Parenthood, and guardian angels in the form of police guards that will arrest you if you try to stop them.”
Both priests caution against pop-cultural misunderstandings of the rite. “The devil doesn’t have the power you see in the movies,” Father Euteneuer says. “He cannot hold onto a state of possession for a given length of time. The movies glorify his power. They do a good job in showing the priest coming to care for these people, but the priest carefully binds that devil, and he is a prisoner in that person.”
Father Thomas says: “I'm always telling people if you have a prayer life and you are in close to the Lord, you have nothing to worry about. That doesn't mean there are not other levels of temptations.”
“Exorcism is a pastoral ministry of the Church, and it’s an important ministry,” said Fr. Euteneuer. “But confession is a much more important ministry, because it pulls out the sins which are the conditions for a possession.”
The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist, by Matt Baglio is published by Doubleday.
Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:26 AM By Richard Flores
This information needs to be given to everyone. How can a Catholic vote for someone that promotes a Satanic industry? This is WHY allowing abortion supporters to speak at a Catholic institution is a GRAVE SIN! It allows Satan to have direct influence on vulnerable young students.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:47 AM By Angelo
The Holy Father ordered Bishops not too long ago, to take Exorcisms seriously. And called on bishops to train more Priests to practice the Rite of Excorcism. I was extremely surprised that many Bishops took him seriously, instead of the, ignore him as usual attitude. I was overwhelmed that Bishop John T. Steinbock of the Fresno Diocese, called for a meeting of all his Priests, to discuss this serious issue, and how to go about addressing it. This was about a month ago. About 9 years ago, with the approval of Bishop Steinbock. Two Priests in this diocese performed a series of Exorcisms. Successfuly Thank God. One of those Priests described many of the details in one of his Sunday Sermons.
And he said he was only telling us, so that we could take the influence of evil seriously.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:36 AM By Chuck Anziulewicz
Yeah, why waste money on psychiatry and anti-psychotic medications when you can just call your friendly neighborhood EXORCIST? Let's just go back to the geocentric model of the Universe while we're at it, OK?
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:11 AM By Carson
I read "The Rite" soon after it came out - it's a great book... very balanced, great narrative, and solid in its presentation of what we believe.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:41 AM By JLS
Doubting Thomases, it is time to touch the wounds and believe.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:59 AM By racjax
I recently read this book and found it very well written. The trend of ignoring the existance of evil has weakened people and permitted the deterioration of our society. I found it very reassuring that daily prayer, the rosary, and confession are the strongest protections yet so easy to do.
If I recall, though, (I failed to make note of it), I do believe that the author unfortunately used "BCE" rather than "BC" at one point in the book.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 8:02 AM By JLS
Which brings up the further question of, Why do some people see it and others not? I have seen some of this demonic activity and recognized it for what it was. I have had people who were/are in occult religions tell me with intense determination to absolutely not pray for them. Sometimes I find people who, over the most mundane and tangential mention of anything to do with religion, launch into immediate and forceful diatribes against the Catholic Church, who then mock God, conjure up pornographic images, and then express hate and despair. The evidence is everywhere, and once in a while the acts themselves can be discerned in public. I think many have seen this stuff, but due to social programming tend to shelve it. They then read the legitimate writings on exorcism and can understand what they have on the shelves of their memories. It is very disturbing to read of such as St Pio's experiences with the demonic ... it is almost as though one is being suckered, but if one reads it with faith, then one can see the opposite, that one is being given spiritual views and the sword of the Lord type means of reckoning with this sort of stuff. Some of you perhaps have never been in places such as the Hollywood strip, or such other centers of immorality, and haven't seen it up close. University populations can be rife with this stuff. You can look into the face of it; it is like a roaring lion in that you can let it eat you or you can resist the devil, mention Jesus and see the evil flee. But like any predator, it might flee only a short ways off and then hide and stalk you. It butchers babies also.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 8:28 AM By The original Frank
Terror of possession is a price we pay for the hope of salvation. If I succumb to skepticism, seeking escape from terror, I lose the hope as well. Rainer Maria Rilke, in the opening verse of the "Duino Elegies" wrote: "Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the Angelic Orders? And even if one were to suddenly take me to his heart, I would vanish into his stronger existence. For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror, that we are still able to bear, and we revere it so, because it calmly disdains to destroy us. Every Angel is terror." In gratitude I pray for those who lead me by the hand, through the terror, toward the hope.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:40 AM By JLS
Chuck A, where would you in your great understanding of the universe place the center?
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:27 AM By kathy
The Church needs to be extremely careful with this one. The left will latch on to any morsel that can be exploited to make Catholics look like the cultists. The message of the Church has to be grounded enough, simple enough, to be accessible -- based on love, charity, objective truths that everyone can understand. Jesus' message was not intended to be so esoteric and abstract that only a few could understand. Exorcism and different constructs of evil is a subtle concept that most non-Catholics, and many modern Catholics, will not understand.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:22 AM By betty
I remember once a long time ago sitting outside the office of the Mother Provincial of an order of nuns. I was working at the switchboard, taking calls and connecting the right lines when I heard her saying very loudly, "Get out of here! I said, get out of here!", I was curious as to which nun or other person she was talking to in such an angry tone so I watched her door to see who would come out of her office. In a little while she came out alone because, according to my friends, she had been talking to the devil and telling him to leave her alone.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:56 AM By Pax Christi
Chuck, why don't we go back even further -- say, the times of Christ, who, compelled a demoniac to recognize him as the "holy one of God" and asked if he had "come to destroy us?" Obviously your skepticism seems to have you put hell's angels in league with flying pigs, never mind that Christ also literally put hell's angels into pigs to send them flying off cliffs to their deaths.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:45 PM By Life Lady
There is no doubt that the enemy is very visible, in places that one would not expect. The best possible weapon against any sense of hopelessness or helplessness is prayer, prayer, and more prayer. If at all possible, make little prayers mentally, every minute of the day, as soon as one can think, such as "My Jesus, Mercy" and "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us!" Any one on this site who gives us that snarky "oh yeah, let's all just go backwards" is doing his father's work, and trying to foment the hopeless attitude that he has been given, by his father. The one best and only thought is that Jesus did not leave us alone here, he gave us the sacraments, and His Mother, to help us remember Him and to cling to. I would rather cling to Jesus and Mary, and be a blind person to everything else, than to give into that kind of thinking. Pray, pray, and pray again and again. It is that beacon of hope that we have, and that one that will lead us to our true Home, with God.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:55 PM By Dan
"Yeah, why waste money on psychiatry and anti-psychotic medications when you can just call your friendly neighborhood EXORCIST? Let's just go back to the geocentric model of the Universe while we're at it, OK? " Chuck, back in 1969 while in college, I was at a youth group meeting (from a Pentecostal church -- I was protestant in those days) when a fellow female student went into convulsions during a presentation and an excorism was performed, discreetly though in another room. The girl came out clean and whole, with a tremendous sense of release and victory. I was there and witnessed this. Since converting to Catholicism in 1978, I have met many "know-it-alls" who deny Satan's existence and the need for exorcism. I think such people are arm-chair theologians out of touch with what is really going on in the world. That said, I also agree that in particularly some protestant sects excorcism is overdone with sometimes tragic results. So with Kathy I agree due care must be given to this issue.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:03 PM By Dan
I have another true experience with Satan to share. After college in grad school I had a roommate who woke up screaming during the night--somewhat close to morning. He thought someone was trying to choke him to death. The room was very cold, though where we were it was not cold outside; and there was a strong sense of fear and dread in the room. It was absolutely palpable. I asked him if he was indulging in pornography, and indeed he said he was. We had a period of prayer and confession, and he determined to leave the porn behind. I had no doubt this visitation was from hell-- nor did he. We are both wiser men for this experience.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:36 PM By lome
The best work the Devil pulled on us is to convince all that they don't exist! They even managed to abolished any mention of Hell, in church's new teachings,prayers ect.
Folks,look at this latest from WND
"Catholic nurse ordered to help with abortion
Mt. Sinai Hospital sued over baby's dismemberment
"Compelling Mrs. DeCarlo to assist in this abortion against her religious beliefs exposed Mrs. DeCarlo to brutal psychological harm," said the document seeking the injunction. "By assisting she was forced to witness the killing of a 22-week-old preborn child by dismemberment. "
THIS IS EVIL IN ACTION!
If you believe in the Devil,you can believe in spirits,souls ect.
Believe that those people who are out of grace,those who consistently,consciously deny Christ offer of Mercy,can be candidates for possession..
Yes! people with dead souls.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:52 PM By lome
God made hell for the damned!
God is a God of NOT ONLY Mercy!
God is a God of DIVINE JUSTICE!
God is a JUST GOD!
So don't kid ourselves.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:24 PM By John F. Maguire
Unfortunately, the topic of exorcism appeals first of all -- and almost always excessively -- to untutored imaginations. Here is a snippet, for example, from A REBOURS, the 1884 novel by J.-K. Huysmans: "... horrors of demoniac possession and exorcism rose before [Des Esseintes]...." As is well-known, the French novelist Joris-Karl Huysmans enjoys the dubious distinction of sparking a certain literary interest in the topic of exorcism, a topic better treated however by the Church's straightforward catechesis. Whence the utility of CATECHSIM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH's treatment of this topic. ~ Permit me to quote the CCC: "When the Church asks publicly and authoritatively in the name of Jesus Christ that a person or object be protected against the power of the Evil One and withdrawn from his dominion, it is called exorcism. Jesus performed exorcisms and from him the Church has received the power and office of exorcizing. In a simple form, exorcism is performed at the celebration of baptism." ~ I do (assuredly) want here to continue this quote but let me stop for a moment to dwell on the present point: Exorcism is performed at the celebration of BAPTISM. The rite of the sacrament of baptism, then, includes exorcism, a point which (hopefully) will militate against any tendency to isolate and exaggerate the extraordinary post-baptismal rite of exorcism -- a rite that nonetheless is sometimes called "major exorcism." It is this latter rite, and just this rite, that so often figures so prominently in the naive IMAGINARY of popular culture.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:35 PM By John F. Maguire
The CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH continues
(my imbrication -- JM): "In a simple form, exorcism is performed at the celebration of baptism. The solemn exorcism, called 'a major exorcism,' can be performed only by a priest and with the permission of the bishop. The priest must proceed with prudence, strictly observing the rules established by the Church. Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons or to the liberation from demonic possession through the spiritual authority which Jesus entrusted to his Church. Illness, especially psychological illness, is a very different matter; treating this is the concern of medical science. Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence of the Evil One, and not an illness." (CCC 1673)
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:56 PM By JLS
Right, Maguire, that is why Jesus went around exorcising devils among people. What religious tradition are you really from? You almost come across as a gnostic with all your cryptic airs, secret wells of knowledge and never coming to terms with truths presented to you.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:00 PM By JLS
Maguire, "imbrication"??? This word reminds me of the Edgar Allan Poe story, "The Cask of Amontillado", where the unsuspecting victim found himself undergoing imbrication, but a bit too late to appreciate the aesthetics of the craftsmanship.
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:50 PM By lome
[Confessions of Hell]
A literal text of the revelations made by the demons
Beelzebub, Judas Iscariot, Akabor, Allida, and Veroba
during a series of exorcisms' from 1975 to 1978
A translation from the French, by Nancy Knowles Smith, of the book
'Avertissements de l'Au'delà à l’Église Contemporaine – Aveux de l’Enfer’
by Jean Marty.
The revelations have also been published in German by Bonaventure Meyer in Switzerland.
Jean Marty's book in French is available from 'Les Editions Saint Raphael, 31 Ouest, rue King, Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada J IH INS.
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 2:06 AM By AnnCA
**About 9 years ago, with the approval of Bishop Steinbock. Two Priests in this diocese performed a series of Exorcisms**
Sorry Angelo, but this is baloney. The diocese of Fresno does not have an exorcist and one of the priests mentioned in this article tried to get permission to come here to help someone and he was refused. Flat out, Bishop Steinbock does not want exorcisms done in this diocese. I know this personally, through priests here, and through the story of one man in this diocese who has traveled outside Fresno desperately trying to get help.
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 2:14 AM By AnnCA
**Both priests agree that for demonic possession to take place “a door must be opened.” **
They're wrong. Look no further than the lives of the saints who were tortured by the devil during their spiritual trials. St. John of the Cross states that demons are allowed to torture souls during the dark nights of sense and spirit.
In addition, Fr. Amorth in Rome states that the majority of obsessions are due to curses placed on the victims. They are notoriously hard to cure.
As for possessions, there was an entire convent of Ursuline nuns in France possessed a few hundred years ago. They went through 4 exorcists, the last and most successful was Pere Surin. He was able to extract a written document from one of the demons prior to departure, one of only two documented cases of this happening.
Does anyone pay attention to church history and mystical theology anymore? One has to know the good as well as the bad and have the gift of discernment.
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 12:06 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to JLS: Karl-Joris Huysmans, on occasion, writes cryptic texts, but I do not think that my quoting the Church's official catechism involves me, for my part, in crypticism.
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 1:34 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to JLS: The topic of this thread, JLS, is exorcism. As soon as I can, I'll try to tie the topic of exorcism back into my present response to your suggestion that I "almost come across as a gnostic." ~ Look, JLS, whether we are talking about ancient Gnosticism or modern gnosticism, no one who accepts the revelation of God as Love can accept the tripartite CORPUS HERETICORUM that consists in (A) axial-age Gnosticism, (B) medieval gnosticism, and (C) contemporary gnosticism. That is a given. ~ On the other hand, care needs to be taken NOT to suppose that the term *Gnostic* always and necessarily connotes heresy. One need only read the _Catholic Encyclopedia_ to see that such a supposition is false. Quote: "God's truth is to be found in revelation, another portion of it in philosophy. It is the duty of the Christian to neglect neither. Religious science, drawn from this twofold source, is even an element of perfection." Thus, according to St. Clement of Alexandria, the instructed Christian, and just this Christian, is "the true Gnostic" (Clement's term). For Clement, then, Catholic Christianity is "the true gnosis" without which faith devolves into mere fideism; or worse, without which faith is vacated of content in such a way that the door is thrown open to one or another false gnosis come to replace the true gnosis that is Catholic Christianity. See Francis Harvey,
"Clement of Alexandria," _The Catholic Encyclopedia_ (New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1908).
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 3:43 PM By John F. Maguire
In further reply to JLS: What is the relationship between gnosticism and exorcism? This is a question for specialists, but for the Valentinian Gnosis in the world of ancient Rome, I would recommend Elizabeth Leeper, "From Alexandria to Rome: The Valentinian Connection to the Incorporation of Exorcism as a Prebaptismal Rite," _Vigiliae Christianae_ 44 (1990), pp. 6-22. For the late-modern/post-modern period, I would recommend Kirsten J. Grimstad, _The Modern Revival of Gnosticism and Thomas Mann's *Doktor Faustus*_ (Rochester, New York / Woodbridge, Suffolk: Camden House, 2002). Grimstad notices that "the particular configuration of sexual pessimism, idealization of androgyny, and the dream of salvation by separation from sexualized, procreative nature found in many ancient texts reiterates strikingly in the texts of decadent aestheticism and in subsequent thought." Grimstad cites J.-K. Huysmans' A REBOUR -- which title, she points out, means: "Against the Grain" or "Against Nature" -- as a leading example of such aestheticism. Huysmans' A REBOURS, she notes, "points directly to the program of violating nature by which this and kindred texts updated and adopted the Gnostic agenda with a powerful current of fin-de-siecle mysogyny that is NOT, to be sure, a feature of ancient Gnosticism."
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 4:10 PM By JLS
Maguire, what seems cryptic is that your references trail off into some vagure region. Gnositicism is the effort to supplant the truth with facts. That is what I see many of your posts doing.
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 5:05 PM By Marco Alvarado
Where would you in your great understanding of the universe place the center? The answer is at the singularity of the big bang. The universe is 13.5 billion years old and the Earth is 4.5 billion years old.
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 7:38 PM By Angelo
AnnCA, I don't doubt what you say about Bishop Steinbock
not wanting Excorcisms performed. Our parish Priest announced the meeting of Priest, called by the Bishop for the purpose of discussing Excorcisms. It gave me a glimmer of hope! What you call baloney, goes like this. At St. John's in Tipton, CA. Fr. Warren Hengal on a Sunday Sermon, spoke to the congregation, for our benefit. On the real presence of Satan and evil. The victim was a teenage girl from Madera, CA. A barn as cold as a freezer in mid summer, The house with one certain room having a overwhelming stench of human feces. A room where the presence of another was stongly sensed, it walked around them again and again, those present felt the presence and heard and felt the footsteps. The teenage girl screaming franticly, stuck on the upper wall of the bathroom, ugly, dark undistinguishable animals that screeched and howeled with a raging anger. After the Excorcism was successful, the girl fell off the wall, thumped on the floor unhurt. From what I was told by a certain person, Fr. Warren Hengal is seriously ill and wasting away, with no medical explanation. Pray much for this good and Holy Priest. Of course AnnCA this is only an abrigded version of Fr. Warren's sermon.
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 8:08 PM By MarkF
There is something satanic about abortion. I saw it first hand before I had come back to the Church while I was on the Mall in DC while a pro-abortion rally was going on. I was there for work, not to participate. Many of these people were very unhealthy looking, though very young - pasty skin, faces contorted, nudity. You can also see this in some videos posted on YouTube of pro-abortion crowds in Austria and in Argentina. The ones in Austria bay and howl like animals, grope on the ground like apes. And I've seen similar things in homosexual people, and certainly have been caught up in it as well. I've heard of some signs of demonic influence. One is inversion - making an upside down copy of something holy, such as the satanic Black Mass, and perhaps, just perhaps same-sex marriage. Fr. Groesschel talks about three signs - multiple personalities, violence and nudity.
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Posted Friday, July 24, 2009 10:02 PM By The original Frank
AnnCA wrote: "Look no further than the lives of the saints who were tortured by the devil during their spiritual trials." That many Saints were among those tortured doesn't prove no door was opened. Doesn't it seem reasonable that the same conditions which open our hearts to God make us more vulnerable? This, it seems to me, is one of many reasons why each of us who undertakes a spiritual practice needs a reliable spiritual director.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 5:43 AM By J Maier
A doubter was I as well until such time when my experience in seeing a demon and being attacked by it changed my rigid logico-scientific worldview in a moment. since then, I can plainly state that I have seen and experienced their presence and actions upon me more than once. Thankfully or perhaps because of it, my faith in Christ has since protected me from the legion of devils that seem everywhere in our modern and sin infested world. Think twice you perfidious skeptics, for such things are as real as the natural world we take for granted and experience everyday, they really exist!
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 8:42 AM By Observer
As an outsider, non-Catholic observer of this website, I find this thread very illuminating. The bathetic absurdity of numerous comments (esp. MarkF and Angelo) is a clear indication of the state of mind of a good portion of the anti-gay, anti-abortion crowd (at least here, and undoubtedly elsewhere, too). Thank you for so fully revealing the superstition and ignorance that undergird all your political/ethical arguments. You can from now on be ignored by people committed to any kind of sane dialogue.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:26 AM By John F. Maguire
I venture to say that in the immense literature on Gnosticism -- ancient, medieval, and modern Gnosticism -- no one, JLS, has ever referred to Gnosticism as the "effort to supplant the truth with facts." That's because a fact is not yet understood to be a fact until it is -- in fact -- acknowledged to be a fact by, and precisely by, a truthful rendering of that fact, if only within one's own interior speech.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:00 PM By JLS
Observer, there is more to observation than reacting to what you run into.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:44 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Observor: Whether the absurdity of the posts to which you refer is bathetic absurdity or pathetic absurdity, the sheer incapacity of many bloggers to engage in critical discussion rather unrestrained indignation ("spite") harms both the cause of the defense of preborn life and the cause of marriage -- marriage, I mean, as keyed to both sexual expression and procreation.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:18 PM By John F. Maguire
In 1969, Herbert Haag published a book entitled ABSCHIED VOM TEUFEL (Einsiedeln), in which he declared -- to quote this book's title in English -- "the end of belief in the devil."
Apropos of "all the passages in the New Testament where there is mention of Satan or the Devil," Haag's claim is that these passages "can just as well be understood as 'sin' or 'evil'." In this way, Haag denied both the identity and the agency of the Devil and his minions. In reply, Joseph Ratzinger wrote: "It is not in the capacity of an exegete, of a commentator on the Scriptures, that Haag bids the Devil farewell, but as a 'man of these times', for whom the existence of the demon is indefensible. The authority, by which he formulates his judgment, is therefore only that of his modern philosophy, not that of the biblical interpreter."
Joseph Ratzinger, "Adieu au Diable?" (1973).
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:18 PM By Elaine
I am just a normal human being that for years have felt the presence of evil. I dont do pornography,drugs & dont recall ever "oepning the door" in any way for evil to march into our home. My youngest daughter for years has seen things to this day. I tried speaking to our priest but he had no clue,was no help, basically did not want to talk about it. We eventually found a priest in an organizations related to Padre Pio who made conference calls to us and help us through the phone. He did explain that demons are out there now more than ever and they want to hang their hooks in your house & then it is very hard to get rid of them. My daughter in high school, slept in a mattress in the floor of our bedroom for 2 yrs every night because of what she saw and experienced. She has now returned to her own room but she still sees things & feels things. She sleeps with hundreds of rosaries under her bed all around, not to mention crosses & all kinds of other religious things.I was told by a priest that there are various reasons why we might have been "attacked" and that was because we are Catholic and very religious, we do pray the rosary all the time, visit the Blessed Sacrament, etc but my husband has a St in his family - Saint Teresa of the Andes. So he explained that all these things are reasons why the demons want to attack us. I dont understand why when I approach the Catholic church nobody is there to help us, or even refer us to someone that might at least be understanding to what we are going through. The church is not training enough priests to go literally out there to help people like us.We lived in the DC area & had a priest come over to exorcise our home. He went into every room. I told him we kept getting a little black stone always at the same location no matter what we did with it. He said next time dont wait so long. He was the only priest that understood clearly what was going on and that was 19 years ago.We are in GA now & still have problems.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 4:14 PM By AnnCA
**That many Saints were among those tortured doesn't prove no door was opened. Doesn't it seem reasonable that the same conditions which open our hearts to God make us more vulnerable? ** That's not what the priests in the article are saying. They claim that the obsessed or possessed MUST have played with the occult to become attacked. That is flat out not true.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 4:47 PM By Alberto
You just cannot be for abortion in thought, word or deed. There will be a lot of wailing on Judgment Day.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 4:50 PM By AnnCA
Angelo, first, I apologize if my comments were sharp or seemingly hostile. I guess I still have some unconquered anger towards Bishop Steinbock and Msgr. Cotta for their failure towards victims in this diocese. I am VERY sorry to hear about Fr. Hengel. I hope he is receiving care for what seems to be the demonic transference onto him. Pere Surin had similar attacks when exorcising the French Ursuline convent. This reinforces the importance that an exorcist needs to be highly trained and delegated by the bishop before performing any exorcisms. This is a great site run by a Catholic psychologist who works with the International Association of Exorcists founded by Fr. Amorth and a few other priests. Maybe they can help free Fr. Hengel from the repercussions. Regardless, it is a solid website by a solid guy. I agree with about 98% of his material. www DOT religiousdemonology DOT com (Spelled out since the site won't accept links) It's an excellent resource for everybody.
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:52 PM By angelfire
Fight with all you can against the enemy. Spread Blessed Salt and Holy Water around Planned Parenthood buildings. Watch them disappear. Do it now do not delay! Do it around all abortion clinics. The enemy has no choice. Do it around Dr. Warren Hern's place in Boulder, Cathharts place in Kansas City, all Planned Parenthood. Those with eyes who can read, just go and do this!
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Posted Saturday, July 25, 2009 8:52 PM By JLS
Elaine, there are priests who can help. You need to search them out. As for some priests not having a clue, take note that three of the four Gospels are written in a way that gives us a view which is called "objective", whereas the Gospel according to St John is written in a mystical way, where the understanding is not quite based on what we see normally. Sometimes one has to constantly rebuke the devils and pray to your guardian angels, and the host of Heaven. It might have taken Jesus nine legions of angels to defeat Pontius Pilate at the time of his trial, but He had a greater work to do. St Padre Pio knows and can help us with our spiritual problems. Pray to him. But you should secure the help of a priest, perhaps in a monastery, who can take you and your family into his spiritual care. There may also be some nuns or an order of nuns who might have what you need. You are involved in a non-routine aspect of spirituality, and should seek the authoritive help that can give you the victory. Dioceses tend to deal with matters on a kind of routine basis, but monasteries and friaries can sometimes have the graces that unusual situations require. If you like, I might be able to make an inquiry or two and hook you up. But all I'd be doing is making some calls to various monasteries. You could do this yourself. BTW, the first concrete thought I have on this is for you to call Human Life International, whose leader is an exorcist. At least he might be able to put you in touch with who you need. And as for seeing "things", yes, the key is to not let them frighten you, and do not listen to them or look at them ... the devil is the liar, deceiver and murderer. Let the angels and saints help you. Resist the devil, and he will flee. Know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free. Jesus tells us that He is the way, the truth, and the life ... fasten your souls to Jesus. I'm assuming you continually pray to Blessed Mary Ever Virgin.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 1:38 AM By saoirse
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Posted Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:36 AM By Chuck Anziulewicz
Yeah, why waste money on psychiatry and anti-psychotic medications when you can just call your friendly neighborhood EXORCIST? Let's just go back to the geocentric model of the Universe while we're at it, OK?
+++++++++++
read the article again,what you're saying was NOT there.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 5:52 AM By Angelo
Elaine, Fr. Amorth, Chief Excorsist of Rome, recommends the use of Excorsized Water, Oil and Salt, which any priest
can perform the Rite on. Look for an older priest, some priests are still living in the silly season of the church. Why satan fears these sacramentals, I don't know. I only know he does. My wife and I have 4 children, we have heard and seen and experienced strange things. 2 very spiritual women, on different occasions. 1 was a total stranger, the other hardly knew us, just out of the blue told my wife, "Have no fear, the devil is making alot of noise, only because he is outside, and is trying to get in, but can't! because, your family prays a great deal." My parents are also practicing Catholics who pray a great many Rosaries,
They also have experienced, such as, someone whipping the ouside walls as with a tree branch. Loud noises on the
roof of which my parents are unable to describe. Ignore those who are superstitious of facts. Trust in God and Our Lady.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 1:30 PM By Phil
To Chuck Anziulewicz and others who sneer at Christianity: Why do you search out and read Christian articles? Is it a lame attempt to somehow prove your intellectual superiority? I keep noticing how many atheists and other Christian bashers show up to comment on most any Christian article. Do you people have nothing else to do? That really is sad.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 1:31 PM By Evelyn Alesna
I was just a young girl of maybe 9 or 10, when a bunch of young people in the neighborhood got together to basically play games and talk. It just so happened that an ouija board was brought out and some of my friends were giggling and urging each other to try this, it is so hilarious. I have never seen one before and no clue of what it does. Somebody just pulled me in and told me to put my hand on a piece of glass and the glass moved by itself. I have never experienced so much constricting fear that to this day, I do not remember how I got out of that neighbor's house and outside breathing hard feeling I haven't put enough distance from that. I am older and have learned a lot since then. Sin abounds, but graces and heavenly assistance is present to aid, protect, and enlighten us. We are not alone in this fight because heaven and the angels are in constant battle with the destroyer of God's creation. The good angels have a lot more invested in this good fight because of the eternal souls involved. Go back to frequent confession, frequent and worthy reception of Holy Communion, prayer and penance, attend if possible daily Holy Mass, gain as many plenary indulgences,.....and go back and strengthened the rest of our brothers and sisters.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 1:43 PM By Simon J
It's just HOCUS POCUS - It's time to grow up and be big boys and girls.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:15 PM By Michelle
Elaine, Contact Fr. Bing (google search) or the Alliance of the Two Hearts Georgia. They know who will help you!
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:27 PM By JLS
Elaine, contact the Norbertine monks at St Michael's Abby in Silverado, California. I was given this reference for you, that there are lots of monks at this Abby who are competent in such spiritual matters as you describe.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:01 PM By John F. Maguire
In the July 8 issue of _Catholic San Francisco_, we encounter a quote (see article above) only the last half of which can be squared with traditional Catholic theology and its metaphysics of evil -- the half I've identified as [B]. By contrast, I do not see how [A] can be squared with the metaphysics of evil. Here's the quote in question: "What sets exorcists apart from priests who are skeptical of the ministry may be their [A] biblical belief in the physical reality of evil and [B] the power of prayer and the sacraments to vanquish it. Now of course [B] -- the power of prayer and the efficacy of the sacraments -- is certainly a part of the Catholic affirmation, but [A] requires close scrutiny. Evil, we know, is a lack of due good; it is PRIVATIO BONI -- a privation of due good. Privation, however, is a kind of non-being. Aquinas uses the example of blindness in the eye, but also moral blindness: in these cases, a due good is missing. Again Aquinas: "Privation is a negation in a subject...and evil is that kind of non-being." Evil is NOT an *ENS REALE*. ~ In DE MALO, St. Thomas puts the matter even more explicitly: "Evil is indeed to be found in things but as a privation and not as something real" (I, 1, ad 20). Evil as, and precisely as, PRIVATIO BONI is NOT SOMETHING REAL. But what had _Catholic San Francisco_ just got through telling us? It just got through telling us that: "What sets exorcists apart...may be their biblical belief in the physical reality of evil." I should hope that that's not the case, since, as St. Thomas explains:
"Evil indeed is to be found in things but as a privation and NOT as something real." Again, for St. Thomas and for sacred scripture, every evil -- physical evil (a blindness, for example, in the eye) and moral evil (for example, moral blindness) -- is understandable as a privation of being and NOT as something real, except in the sense that I REALLY do understand this evil to be evil.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:47 PM By Carreen
Dear Elaine,
I had the same experience for 12 years and two houses. I have 3 sons and we all have experienced the hauntings, physical attack on me twice and noises, voices ect..
I also the same experience with talking to a priest who looked scared and did not want to deal with me. We were left all on our own. Even moving to another house in town did not change it. I pray the rosary and so do two of my older sons. I read books on the saints on my own. I recommentd Angels and Devils Angels And Devils. This has to be the most thorough book about the Angels yet written in modern times. Here, the bestselling author Joan Carroll Cruz Angel and Devil you can buy a used copy on abe books or another used book site.
which tell you to use holy water, salt and oil and pray the rosary. We go to church every week. I finally go relief this year.
I bought an audio of Father Hampsh
claretian tape ministry.org/home. You can find it on the web.
The binding prayer of Saint Michael works!!! Dear God send St. Michael to bind all evil spirits in my (house,town, school ect..) by the most precious blood of our lord and savior and bring it to the foot of the cross in Heaven for our Heavenly Father to dispose of in Jesus name we pray. Pour down your spirit on everyone and heal everyone. Amen.
All of these things gave me relief until Ash Wednesday of this year when I can say God almighty came to the rescue and cleaned the house. I had a vision of Jesus and a voice that said GET OUT! From then on we have been free from our haunting.
Praise God. I still pray 3 rosaries a day, stations of the cross, Divine Mercy and many more prayers. I am so thankful for God's intervention. I will pray for your deliverance too. God knows you have strong faith, you have courage and devotion to God above. God is greater than devil!
If you want to email me you can at Carreen@optonline.net subject HAUNTING
I underestand you pain and will pray for you and your familiy.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:59 PM By Jena
Elaine, so many families are being targeted especially teenagers are. I agree there are many reasons why you could have been targeted. You may want to contact the Intercessors of the Lamb . They can help. With us we had sin issues and had converted. We were no doubt targeted but at the same time it has been a much needed purification. What you describe sounds like an infestation though and at that level either some one is being trained as as saint(Padre Pio) or perhaps something happened to your daughter. Wounds can be an open door too. You have my prayers for your family. Consider yourself referred. Also the Alliance of the Two Hearts is big in Atlanta area you can try them also. All their Priests are trained as exorcists.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 7:00 PM By JLS
My first girlfriend (brief affair) in college told me that she and her mother did a ouiji board and then placed their hands gently on the top of a 600 pound oak table and moved it around the room. Later on when I became a practicing Christian, I reviewed that and some other little indicators and realized that she was indeed flirting with occult power. In my wild youth I discerned occult powers among some people. Because I resisted these to a great extent, I was able to avoid being snared permanently. For years after committing myself to Christ, I had to almost constantly "battle" demonic things ... My remedies were exactly what the Church prescribes. I think that had I not led such a robustly wild profligate youth, I would not have been subject to such things. It has left its mark, but I constantly recall prayers and use them ... it works. The key is to commit oneself to God, which means to allow Him to do in your life what Jesus Christ is all about. Do not pattern your lives on what society insists upon, but upon what God gives you. Do not look on the world, the flesh or the devil for guidance; but give yourself wholly to God. Love conquers all (the title of a Baptist song), and this is true. Love God, hate evil. Believe what you pray; the Our Father is the greatest prayer; but also the Hail Mary and the Jesus prayer, not to forget St Michael and your Guardian Angel ... the Saints will help you, sometimes instantaneously. You can have anything you want if you give God everything you are; but this is a catchy phrase, because when you give to God, your wants change according to His will. The popes have been calling us to holiness because it is what God wants. One child told his father he would obey completely but only partially did he obey, and he was rewarded partially. The other child told his father he would not obey, but then obeyed fully; he was rewarded fully.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 7:54 PM By RN
To the skeptics:
I too was a skeptic, and did not believe in a personal "evil". Someone had prayed for me to be given the gift of faith. I pray this for you as well. I asked God to "prove Himself" to me, then I would believe. Believe me, God can handle your challenge! God wants you to believe and not doubt.
When I began a personal relationship with Jesus, my eyes were opened to many things. One story below:
I was talking to a pt in the ICU who had tried to commit sucide. He was a very sad individual indeed. I told him that it was against the commandments to kill, and that included himself. God had a purpose for him. I felt led to ask him if he wanted me to pray for him. He said yes. When I started to pray, I felt the power of God so strongly, that I had to hold onto the siderails to prevent my legs from collapsing underneath me. I watched as during the prayer this man went into a "grand mal" seizure setting off the EKG alarms. Another Christian nurse came in and also witnessed this. After several minutes, the pt woke up but was fully awake and alert, never having any after effects. He slept well that night and made a rapid recovery. The other nurse and I looked at each other and exclaimed that we had just witnessed and exorcism. I have never forgotten this even though it happened many years ago.
There are many other stories that have happened to me especially with God working in my and my families life, I do know that just as God is real, so is the devil, who never tires in bringing distruction to God's people and he is most effective when you do not believe that he is real.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:31 PM By Angelo
AnnCA, Michelle, JLS, Careen, Thanks for the info. AnnCA
I had wondered if Fr. Warren Hengel's illness was due to his success with the Excorcism. I want to seek to have him liberated. He would be an excellent Bishop for the Diocese of Fresno.. When He was at St. Johns in Tipton, CA. I would attend daily Mass. Fr. Warren would expose the Blessed Sacrament, and he would make a Holy Hour, before saying Mass. He always had a Severe Serious look on his face, But was as gentle as a lamb. He could roar like the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, He could be as gentle as a dove. And I say this before Almighty God and His Holy Mother.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:02 PM By lyndon a. acosta
Possession is as real as it can be and we have to believed in it if you believe the Bible is an inspired work of God and the New testament there are numerous accounts of it.Even in the ministry of Jesus He encountered a few of them. When I was young I heard of a case that a young woman was possessed and exorcism performed.Nowadays in the Philippines there are newpaper reports of possession but I think they are just mass hysteria because you never hear exorcism perform.In US there must be more cases there with abortion and gay marriage being debated and fought at the highest level that is the presidency.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:08 PM By Anne T.
I use to think this was all nonsense, and that Christ was just using the terms and language of his times until someone in my husband's family brought a ouji board to a family gathering. They asked me to come play, and I said that it was just nonsense, but I finally went over to the table to try the thing to prove them wrong. Well, the board worked, and there was no strings or anything under the table because I checked. That is when I told them, "I'm out of here. The Bible forbids this." The woman who brought the board later got really crazy saying there were poltergeist, etc. in her house, and she and her husband ended up in a divorce. People don't believe until something happens to them. Many, many years ago I went to visit a relative. I did not feel comfortable around her or in her house. I could not figure out why that was so. About four or five months later, I went there again and got the same feelings. Several months later, I went there and everything seemed to be all right. Either that time or the next time I saw her she let out that she had been into "white witchcraft" but had stopped. Then I knew why I had felt so uncomfortable around her. Another relative of ours ask me if I had noticed anything usual in the house and told me some scary things that had happened to her there -- and I had not said anything to her or anyone else about what I had felt -- then I told her what had happened to me. Also, I had a friend who was taking a psychology class at a local public community college in her area. She said that the teacher started using such things as pendulums. She said the pedulum had worked on everyone in the classroom til the teacher came to her. She knew it was wrong and had prayed for Christ to cast out any evil. It would not work on her. Many such things are just tricks and fradulent. Occultist have used false ceilings to send down rose petals during seances, etc., but some other things just cannot be explained.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:27 PM By Anne T.
I had another friend who had tried a ouji board with her friend just for fun, not thinking it would give her any correct answers. She asked her name. It gave her a different one from the one she was using. She happened to mention it to her mother and told her ouji boards did not work. Her mother told her that she had been named at birth the name the board had spelled out, but later she and her husband (the woman's father) had decided to change her name and had put the one she was using on the birth certificate. It could have been a coincedence, but the woman never used a ouji board again. It scared her. My question is: how does the board work and spell out things if it is fradulent? Do you, Simon J, or anyone else have the answer to that question.
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Posted Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:36 PM By Anne T.
P.S. whether the ouiji board works or not, it can be dangerous psychologically for people who ask the wrong question. If someone ask it when they were going to die, etc. it could have a very bad psychologial effect on some people -- making them accident prone.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 2:52 AM By lome
Guys,Elaine,Continue with your prayers.Those noises are all to intimidate you,as you pray more in the salvation of others.
The fight will be more intense as the fight for souls increases
the more so at the end times.Surround yourself with Holy water crucifixes,prayer to St. Michael,Our lady ...The deeply religious,they are their enemies.It's all intimidation to stop you from praying,like the experiences of the saints,you will learn to anticipate and live with it,Just remember God is in control and only allow things for reasons like for your own
maybe sanctification.Without God's permission,They can't do a thing.Like a fierce dog in chains. Our lady says,to put each one of your family under the protection of her Immaculate conception before sleeping and when you wake up.Because your enemy doesn't sleep,while you sleep.
Remember also,that the one in you are more powerful than them.ask you guardian angel all the time.
They are checking you out.
Maybe God has plan for you and just wanting you to have a solid experience in mastering that personal enemy of yours.
The more he shows his ugly face the more you call on God?
It just shows that for lack of any common reasons,you must
be doing something right,that are hurting their cause..
God bless You!
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 7:35 AM By The original Frank
AnnCA: I'm not quite sure if your comment of 4:14PM is based on the present article or not. As quoted, Frs. Thomas and Euteneuer said "a door must be opened" but they did not say the victim *must* have played with the occult or that the victims must have done something bad. I don't think it would be possible to list all possilbe "doors." Isn't that in agreement with your point?
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 8:10 AM By Peter
Elaine - Given the circumstances and symptoms you describe, it sounds like your daughter is experiencing something more medical/psychiatric than spiritual, and I suggest in earnest that she might benefit greatly from some type of pharmacological assistance. There are some very effective new-era anti-psychotic drugs on the market, with little to no side-effects, which could greatly improve the quality of her life. I am not suggesting that she is schizophrenic, but fear is clearly your and her enemy in this case. Please seek out professional care of this nature first - for your daughter's sake - before complicating things with an exorcism or other such spiritual / supernatural (and potentially harmful) warfare.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 9:10 AM By RR
I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard from a few people that evil can get into a person from a tatoo. Anyone else ever hear of this?
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 10:25 AM By Anne T.
Simon J., you are right about the so-called "psychics" being hocus pocus, and Uri Geller cannot bend spoons with his mind. There is a book by a magician who tells how Uri Geller does his tricks. The deceased comedian and stage magician, Johnny Carson, when he was alive got very angry with Geller because he was presenting himself as a "real" psychic when all he is is a stage magician. Real or not, people who get deeply involved in the occult eventually turn "bonkers" -- some cases in point, Mary Lincoln, the wife of President Lincoln who ended up in a mental institution after too many seances and Sarah Winchester, who only stayed out of the mental institution because she was rich and people were paid good money to humor her. Never-the-less, there are some people who have left the occult who tell horror stories about what it did to them mentally and sometimes physically. It was very real to them. I know my relative who got into "white" witchcraft was not her normal self, and that is probably what clued me in and made me uncomfortable around her, even though there was no outward paraphanalia in her house that I could see at the time.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 10:44 AM By JLS
Peter, you don't know what you're talking about.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 11:55 AM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Peter: I commend you for your concern and for your astute interpretation of this situation even as I would defer to the same medical professionals you invoke. I am inclined to agree with you that, given the account before us, the problem appears here to be a medico-psychological one rather than otherwise. What we encounter here -- as you point out -- is a predominate note of compulsive fear. This fear is given expression by the daughter's compulsive-talismanic practice of "sleep[ing] with hundreds of rosaries under her bed...." Such practice brings strongly to mind the Church's insistence that the rosary be used devotionally and if used as an object, then used as a SACRAMENTAL rather than as a TALISMAN. ~ The efficacy of the rosary as a sacramental derives from the prayer of the Church, NOT from any magical or talismanic power inputed to the rosary as an object. The dominant note here, as you've pointed out, is the daughter's compulsive fear ("hundreds of rosaries under her bed") -- which fear warrants the judgment that her use of the rosary is a talismanic use rather than (apart from her own devotional use) a sacramental use. In making this observation, I do not for a moment mean to gainsay use of the rosary as a SACRAMENTAL where such use is called for. H. Leclercq, for example, has spoken directly to this issue: "One of the most remarkable effects of sacramentals is the virtue [per the power of the prayer of the Church as a whole - JM] to drive away evil spirits whose mysterious and baleful operations affect sometimes the physical activity of man. To combat this occult power the Church has recourse to exorcisms and sacramentals." H. Leclercq,
"Sacramentals," _The Catholic Encyclopedia_ (New York: Robert Appleman Company, 1907). Even so, I would agree with you, Peter, that the evident problem in the present situation is medico-psychological rather than otherwise.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 12:59 PM By JLS
Maguire, hogwash! Any reputable priest acquainted with demonic issues will incorporate a medical team in the evaluation. But the same cannot be said of any reputable medical doctor. You err to the possible damage of those involved. Both you and Peter are vainly practicing medicine without a licence ... if you've been looking for a "touche'", then here you have one, and in spades.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 12:59 PM By Peter
JLS - What makes you state that? I realize we are sworn adversaries, but there is nothing heretical or anti-Catholic about advising that a sound medico-psychological intervention could be beneficial, which even a prudent layperson such as yourself ought to understand was offered in good faith.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 5:52 PM By JonJ
I must admit I am skeptical about demonic possession. I have never experienced anything which would seem "supernatural". I also struggle with the whole idea that demonic possession could occur against your free will. That doesn't mean that such things could not happen, nor do I close the door to the possibility. I just think that more people claim to experience supernatural events than occur in reality, out of a desire to experience drama or in some way to claim they are exceptional rather than ordinary.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 8:51 PM By Angelo
JLS, Peter does have a point. Before an excorcism
can be performed, the Church requires a medical examination. Especialy for mental health evaluation. If there are no medical conditions to explain the situation. Then an excorcism must be performed. Many people who have been institutionolized are actualy victims of demonic influence, and there are many who believe that they are victims of demonic influence, but it turns out to be schizophrenia. If Peter thinks that all such situations are merely mental medical conditions, then he is in grave error.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 9:05 PM By Anne T.
The relatives I mentioned were not nor had ever been Catholic. They had been baptized in a Baptist church, but were not practicing Baptists. And Peter, you are right that people should first consult a good doctor, preferably Catholic, if they are having visions. Some things are just chemical imbalances in the body, not always but most or quite often. I once had visions when I was using a prescription cough syrup that my doctor gave me. He knew right away that it was the phenergran in the cough syrup that was causing the horrific visions and my inability to sleep. When I quit taking the drug, everything was fine and the visions left. People who have taken illegal drugs during their lifetime sometimes get chemical imbalances also. If the doctors cannot find a cause, then it IS time for the exocist.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 9:09 PM By Pat
JLS, every reputable doctor automatically incorporates a reputable doctor in the evaluation -- him/herself.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 9:17 PM By Anne T.
Regarding my last post, one does have to be careful about the doctors one chooses to check out any problems because some of them are into the New Age themselves. Many psychologists and psychiatrists use "The Course of Miracles", which is just New Age junk. Ask how they were trained before you use one. JLS, is right also about the official exocists of the Catholic Church using physicians. Theirs should be good.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 9:38 PM By JLS
Peter, you are not my adversary. The subject girl has certainly gone through the school system, and if there were a psychiatric condition, it would no doubt have been noticed, right? So, I would discount that possibility. Also, a medical doctor might or might not consider demonic influence. But a reputable exorcist would involve a medical team at the outset, as part of the discernment of the case. So, if a priest competent in this type of matter is consulted, then all possibilities will be dealt with. Remember, Catholic exorcists are not televangelistical hype artists, but trained and then appointed by the local bishop.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 9:42 PM By JLS
JonJ: Jesus Christ advises us to stay away from the deep things of the occult. If you have not run into demonic stuff, then do not go looking for it. I can talk about it from some experience because of the wild lifestyle I led in my youth ... I ran into it. I can describe things which are not psychiatric but are spiritually bizarre. I think also that sometimes both conditions are involved; these can be "chicken or egg" puzzles as to which brought on which. There is a reason for the phrase, "wiles of the devil". The story of Cain and Abel reveals a great deal of instruction on this.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 9:48 PM By JLS
JonJ, there is a lot of demonic activity. But remember that Jesus teaches us that the devil is subtle; thus, it is not obvious. There are flagrant cases, but those can serve to deceive. There is a spiritual war ongoing, in which the Church is the target of evil. Why else do you think peace and love are so difficult to attain in this world?
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 9:57 PM By Angelo
When age 15, a cousin and I went to his sisters house. She and a friend were playing with the Ouiji board. I asked that they ask it for the date of my death. The instument went around in circles for a long time. In desperate curiosity
I went as far as calling on satan to reveal this to me. finaly it gave the date of November 16, 1975. Soon the Idea of death
was driving me crazy. I began to do pennace & fasting. desperatley begging God for my life. I vowed to God to do his will if he spared me. A day in Aug. 1975, I went to the church and prayed the Rosary, which I had not prayed for a long time. Begging Our Lady to help me. That night I had this dream. 3 Angels, a crib, myself and God. The Angels were like golden lights, God I could not see, but knew he was there. The Angels communicated with God, then one of them said to me, "get in the crib". this happened 3 times, until I complied. I began to wonder if this dream was God, assuring me that he would grant my request. On Nov. 16, 1975, I was crossing a street, I was barely missed by a speeding car. I heard within me the voice of the Angel in that dream "That was the appionted time." That night after midnight. I rejoiced, I'm alive! I now belong completely to God. What great joy and peace I have within me. But since then I have suffered extremely, traumatic and painful, almost unbearable situations. Illness after Illness plagues me. I accept it as a punishment from God, for my diabolical mortal sin. And offer it to God for the conversion of sinners.
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 10:39 PM By MarkF
Elaine, whatever you do, don't either you or your daughters get taken in by the pharmaceutical industry and their drug de jour. If you're having emotional problems, see a good psychologist who does not dispense drugs. Don't believe the hype...the drugs at best cover up the problem, and at worse can have lots of horrendous side effects. Don't be discouraged. Spend a bit of time and you'll find someone who can look into this. But don't be afraid to hear that the answer might not be full blown demonic possession. The pastor at my parish has had experience with demonic possession, but he says that the real danger is from plain ol' temptation.
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Posted Tuesday, July 28, 2009 6:37 AM By Peter
Well, JLS, I find it concerning that you would rather use Elaine’s situation as an experiment to test the veracity of your faith by stoking the family’s resolve in pursuing a complex spiritual solution, rather than as an opportunity to demonstrate the core tenets of your faith by advising the family to seek the readily available secular care they need.
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Posted Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:37 AM By JLS
Peter, perhaps you posted 6:37am before my previous post was up. Read July 27, 2009 9:38 PM post.
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Posted Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:59 AM By JLS
Angelo's testimony works to show the grace that God provides to those who are faithful to Him. "Not by might, not by power, but by my Word, saith the Lord": United with Christ in suffering is united with the Word of the Lord; this is a look at how the Holy Eucharist unites us with God and makes us one with the Lord. Angelo's suffering is the same as Jesus' suffering on the Cross. This is a deeper experience than joining in another's suffering; it is union with another's suffering so that there is one suffering and not two sufferings. Angelo and countless others through the ages are suffering on the Cross because they are united with Jesus Christ as He hangs on the Cross. St John and "the Women" stood at the foot of the Cross, because that is as close as was humanly possible to be. But later it was possible to gain union with God through Jesus Christ through partaking in the Real Presence of the Body and Blood of Christ in Holy Communion, and thus experience what St John could only empathize with at close range. Man without sufficient grace dies when in the presense of God, but Jesus gives sufficient grace which sustains us in our union with God so that we die only to sin yet live in redemption. Because of this, we can "see" these spiritual events at times.
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Posted Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:06 AM By JLS
Pat, in the real world there are many incompetant, ignorant and evil medical doctors and other medical practicioners.
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Posted Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:04 PM By Jackie
JLS, there are people of all kinds in every occupation, including the priesthood.
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Posted Tuesday, July 28, 2009 6:59 PM By Anne T.
Last night in the news on my computer I read the horrifying story of a woman who killed her infant son in an unspeakable manner and ate some of his body parts. The police officers were so shocked and disgusted that they could not talk to each other, but were silent, while searching her house. They thought maybe she had post-partem psychosis. Both she and her husband had been previously diagnosed as schizophrenic. What stood out when I read one of the newspaper articles online was that the father had been to a Judas Priest concert that day or a few days before. For those who do not know, the heavy metal group Judas Priest writes and uses very violent, anti- Christlike music. I realized then that the couple had probably not lived a very good lifestyle before this terrible thing happened. I wondered if listening and going to such concerts and events had affected the way the woman thought and was at least partially part of the reason she could do such a horrific thing.
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Posted Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:14 PM By JLS
Jackie, the post by pat was whitewashing all medical professionals, in a context of discernment. It is unwise to absorb such folly.
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 4:40 AM By Angelo
JLS, On the night I posted my testimony of the danger of playing w/evil, I wondered whether it would not have been better had I not. I went to bed, one not suffering from insomnia, I could'nt sleep. When I would fall asleep, immediate horrifying dreams would begin. I don't remember what they were about, but it did not stop through the whole night. I prayed alot, reminding myself that Our Lord Jesus conquered evil. And that Our Lady crushed his proud head.
I finaly got to sleep, slept till 2:00 PM. I was entirely exausted, Mind, Body and Soul. I read your comment about my testimony. But I had no consolation whatsoever, I was despairing. I told my wife. She assured me it was only evil
that was outraged that I exposed one of his evil tactics. When I went to bed last night, I was still in a deep sad state.
At 2:00 AM I awoke and prayed the 20 mysteries of the Rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. I got up and my peace was restored. I read your comment again. And my Joy was restored, with an ever greater determination to do God,s will in all things. I only post this comment to show everyone, that even while we comment on this article on California Catholic Daily. The evil one continues to seek the ruin of our Souls. AnnCA, I understand your dissapiontment with Bishop Steinbock. We must pray for his conversion.
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:19 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Angelo: Your mistake is to reify evil. You refer to evil as an entity of some kind. But evil is not an *ens reale*. Evil is a lack of due good. In the devil, for example, evil is the lack of a properly ordered will. See Thomas Aquinas, _De Malo_: "Evil is indeed to be found in things but as a privation and not as something real." Which is not to deny that what we reasonable understand to be evil is not really evil. But here is the point: The demons are not evil ENTITIES; it is their malign will that is evil on account of refusal to acknowledge what is good as good. Thus the the ruling of the Council of Braga (561): "If anyone says that the Demon was not created by God at the beginning as a good Angel, and that he is not through his very nature a creature of God; but on the conrary, that he was born out of the darkness and has no creator, but that he is of himself the principle and substance of evil...let him be anathema."
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:32 PM By Anne T.
Angelo, do not watch bad news or read about scary or morbid things before you go to bed. Also, read such calming and unlifting material as the night prayers in the Liturgy of the Hours or Christian prayerbook. Read everynight Psalm 9, which is also part of the nighttime Liturgy of the Hours if you do not have the Liturgy of the Hours prayerbooks. Part of that prayer says: "You will not fear the terror of the night nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the plague that prowls in the darkness nor the scourge that lays waste at noon." The ending of the night prayer for the Hours also asks for peaceful sleep that refreshes tired bodes. Try it. I believe it will work for you.
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:33 PM By Anne T.
Also, try drinking warm milk before you go to bed. It is a good natural sedative. You can also add honey to it. It is a very Biblical remedy.
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:05 PM By John F. Maguire
The CCD editor should know better than to publish a post that promotes what theologians call "collaborative demonic occultism" -- let alone publish such posts under the Catholic name. COLLABORATIVE DEMONIC OCCULTISM claims a kind of right to collaborate with demons for the purpose of GARNERING knowledge -- knowledge that is (purportedly) possessed by these same demons. See LOME's post at CCD July 23, 11:50 PM (This post approves "the confessions of hell" [scil.: "the language of hell"] by which "confessions" or "language" (self-identified) demons such as "Akabor," "Allida," and "Veroba" are said to have been forced by heaven to disclose satanic secrets during the process of exorcism.) To explain: Collaborative demonic occultism promotes the USE of exorcism not simply to rid the possessed victim of demons but to extract from those same demons *secret knowledge* in the spirit of occult gnosticism). Quote: "If the demons did not speak 'the language of hell', the possession would not be authentic." I REPLY: The extraction of occult knowledge from demons is NOT the criterion for what counts as a true instance of possession. NOR is such extraction the purpose of the rite of exorcism. To the contrary, the Catholic Church has firmly rejected the COLLABORATIVE DEMONIC OCCULTIST thesis in its entirety. The Church has refused to grant an imprimatur to the primary book that has promoted this thesis. Yet this website has seen fit to publish a post that advertises that very book: namely, Jean Marty's _Avertissements de l'Au'dela a l'Eglise Contemporaine -- Avieux de l'Enfer_. Jean Marty's notion that it is permissible to collaborate with demons -- in the course of an exorcism -- so to garner occult knowledge from these demons, has been rejected by the Church as a grave abuse of the Catholic pastoral. I object to the CCD editor's decision to publish LOME's occultist post.
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:21 PM By JLS
Angelo, my middle name is waking up at 2am and trying to go back to sleep and then praying. Sometimes I fall back to sleep before long. Other times I never quite get back to sleep. I figure sometimes the Lord wants us to do that praying, when there are less distractions from the daily grind. Recently I heard a monk say in his sermon (TLM) ... well, he labeled it "noise". Deep prayer and meditation requires the absense of noise. The hours from 2am to 4am are about the quietest. Maybe when the noise around us disappears, then the noise beyond us appears ... and we are called to quiet it as the Lord quieted the storm and the sea. And what else can we do but pray.
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:27 PM By JLS
Anne T., demonic music groups are common. There are also street drugs that amplify the unnatural behavior. Some people are more vulnerable to these suggestive influences than most. But even most are influenced, as we can see from the sad moral state of society today. It is a re-paganization, only worse than before Christianity. There was a news story of some young man who lived in the back country of south east Asia. He would eat people by digging them up. In his interview he said how delicious they are. His neighbors were afraid of him, even though he promised not to eat anymore people. His manner was nonchalant ... as in it's just another thing to do, like normal things. We read and hear more and more about such extremely bizarre events.
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:30 PM By Anne T.
JLS, the crime I mentioned happened in Texas, and the woman was screaming that she had killed her child when the police came. She had also tried to kill herself, but was not successful. She only seriously injured herself. Clearly she was horrified by what she had done, but it was too late. So awfully sad!
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:38 PM By Anne T.
Yes, JLS, there are many demonic muscial groups around. I won't name them because I don't want to give them any publicity. Years ago I doubted whether one group was as bad as the Evangelicals said, so I got into their website. Even if the so-called subliminal messages are not there, the websites and lyrics to the songs themselves are violent, immoral and demonic. They were right.
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:56 PM By lome
Folks,just watch closely your though processes,how you give in easily to the pleasure of the flesh?ask yourself where it is coming from? Is that really you?
About excessive eating? Is that really you?
Are you really needing or wanting?
Our mind is the battle ground.We can give them a foothold
by not guarding your will! That 's right ,God doesn't violate
your will so are the devils.they astute,cunning,and legalistic..
They know God's laws better than you are.They will come and claim a dead soul in a person totally void of sanctifying grace..PRAYERS..Oh!how they hate this.They will do everything to stop you from doing it,because they know that prayer is the Oxygen of the soul.Your hotlink to heaven.
They don't even want to get close by you if there is prayer ringing in the air!
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Posted Wednesday, July 29, 2009 8:48 PM By JLS
Maguire, my response to your effort to hide the demonic is "hogwash". Again, I say to you, read the Gospels for once in your life. If you can provide such an articulated array of information resources, you are certainly capable of reading the Gospels and memorizing them. Much of your advice simply contradicts plain Magisterial teaching as found so clearly stated in the Gospels. Go ahead, give it a try. The Gospels don't bite. There is nothing to hurt you with a dive into the story of Jesus.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:17 PM By Angelo
Maguire, What I posted, I did not post in the capacity of a theologian. I was attempting to make a long story short. When I referred to evil I was referring to satan. I agree w/my wife, that satan was furious because, I exposed how evil, the ouiji board could be. Lets look at a couple of points in what the Roman Catholic Church calls theoligy. First by my calling and even begging satan to reveal the day of my death.
I rejected my baptismal promises, I placed all my trust and hope in satan. This was an act of total rejection of God. It was Idolotry, in fact an act of worship to satan, which is due to God alone. St. Peter rejected God, turned to his mercy, God gladly gave it, then gave Peter charge of his whole Church, as the first Pope. God works this way with all of us who accept his Divine Mercy. Another point, The Church teaches that when we dream of God, or Our Lady, or his Angels and Saints who give us a message. The dream is supernatural. Just as in the dream of St. Joseph, when the Angel orders him to take Our Lady and the Christ Child to Egypt. How did I know that those 3 in my dream were Angels. I don't know, I only know that I knew. The Angels were not physical beings, to me they were in the form of semi-dim golden lights. When the one Angel, spoke to me, it was not with human tongue, yet I understood perfectly well what he was saying. When the speeding car missed me by 1/16 of an inch. I heard the same voice of the Angel in the dream "That was the appointed time". It was not a voice in human tongue, it was not a voice in the air, I heard the voice within me, more clearer and understandable than human tongue. This is what the Church calls a Locution.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:58 PM By JLS
St Paul talks about angelic language.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:13 PM By Angelo
Maguire, I forgot to add my main point. My opinion of all that happened to me. It was in fact God and satan battleing
for my soul. My interpretation is Theologicaly in conformity with the teachings of the Church. Throughout my life I have measured what happened 35 years ago, with the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church. My intention of posting what happened. Was for the purpose, of commenting on this article, from California Catholic Daily, and so that others would realize that we risk losing our souls by offending God.
To let others know that we are never beyond God's Mercy. If He forgave me, my astornomical sins. He will most certainly forgive all sins against him, provided one seek and accept God's Mercy.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:57 PM By Anne T.
Angelo, in my last post I was not talking about when you have locutions, etc., but if you have trouble sleeping or have bad dreams. Also, JLS is right about getting up and praying if one cannot sleep. Even sleep experts tell people now that if they cannot sleep, don't just lie there but get up and do something til one is sleepy. Prayer, reading the Bible and drinking warm milk are what I do til I am relaxed enough to fall into a deep refreshing sleep.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:46 PM By JLS
Like I've been trying to tell Maguire, faith is mightier than intellect. Man by his intellect cannot remove a mountain and toss it into the sea. However, by faith he can do so.
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Posted Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:11 PM By Angelo
After going back to the beginning. To the main article! Is it my imagination, that us posters, myself first? That we are sometimes running in different directions? Is it not called confusion (Alias: Satan.) ? Does this site not seek the greater glory and honor of God? And yet most of us posters are, " being sifted like wheat." I believe we should all be in union with Christ and his Church. Let us never trust ourselves to be on our own!!!
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Posted Friday, July 31, 2009 9:43 AM By John F. Maguire
In reply to JLS: Your fretting about my reading habits, especially as regards the texts of sacred scripture, falls short of an intelligible defense of your own posts. As regards intelligibility itself, since the all human souls are intellective souls, it is always already an intellective soul that affirms the gift of faith. To be sure, faith is an affirmation of truths that are revealed truths, but the true formula is that grace PERFECTS nature -- faith PERFECTS the intellect.
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Posted Friday, July 31, 2009 10:56 AM By Georgiana
John F. Maguire, In reply to your response to JLS: If faith pefects the intellect, is this your humble admittance in regards to issues such as Professor Kmiec, that your own faith needs building?
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Posted Friday, July 31, 2009 12:35 PM By JLS
Maguire, I'm not fretting at all; I'm showing you the trap you're caught up in. You've stooped to the ad hominem level of argument. But your definition of "faith" is utter nonsense. Try again.
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Posted Friday, July 31, 2009 1:27 PM By JLS
Maguire, your post of 9:43 is a perfect example of what you often do, which is to put forward formulas and definitions from various references but without explaining them, without saying what they mean. Now with this latest formula, I can see why you were taken to the cleaners by the Kmiec/Obama machine ... because you do not know what these things mean. You do not know what faith means. You cannot even discuss the most well known and beloved explanation of faith, which is like a mustard seed ... according to Jesus. But then you've got superior references of course; why lower oneself to the mere Bible?
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Posted Friday, July 31, 2009 2:44 PM By The original Frank
JLS's complains about "ad hominem level of argument" and I also hope that we can all lay off the personal attacks. When we see this behavior in ourselves, we have opportunity to realize this is the shadow at work, which we would all do well to exorcise. Whether by psychotherapy, formal exorcism or interpersonal spirituality, always throw light where there is shadow!
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Posted Saturday, August 01, 2009 1:38 AM By Angelo
Maguire, Take heed of what JLS tells you, He put it in a nutshell "You've stooped to the ad hominum level of argument. But your definition of "faith" is utter nonsense."
I remember a certain man in our parish. He had a learning disability. He was a hard working man, he accepted labor of any kind, from flagging airplanes to digging graves. almost all his free time was spent in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. The Mass, Holy Communion, Frequent Confession and The Holy Rosary of Our Lady. Were his rule of life. Many treated him with scorn, considering him a boore and somekind of fool. He willingly
accepted injustices against himself w'patience. Even Priests treated him in like manner. He had a great love, veneration and respect for all Priests. He became a very good friend of mine. We would speak of God for 8 to 10 hours at a time.
My point is this, in the words of a Holy Priest to me concerning this man, "This man knows more about God, than the greatest theologians of universities. because he lives the faith, and not just talks about it." Maguire, maybe if you lived the faith you could post comments that have some coherence to them.
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Posted Saturday, August 01, 2009 1:24 PM By John F. Maguire
In this thread, we've been talking about exorcism in the first instance; the relationship between faith and reason in the second instance; but to suggest that in some third instance we are talking about my partial agreement/partial disagreement with Ambassador-nominee Douglas Kmiec is quite a stretch. I've already explained that my defense of Doug Kmiec's critique of the Scalian paradigm (according to which _Roe v. Wade_ is to be overturned but with a *sub voce* denial that there is any such thing as a federal right to life of the preborn, to wit, quite as if preborn infants were
"bare life" as far as state legislatures are concerned) -- this, my defense of Doug's critique of the Scalian paradigm of preborn infants as "bare life", squares with sound jurisprudence on the subject of abortion (as against the McCain-Palin position on abortion, which is essentially that of Justice Scalia), but to repeat this hard truth, even after the 2008 election, doesn't for a moment make me a client of machine politics, let alone Kmiec/Obama "machine" politics. Bear in mind: There is an important difference between pro-life opposition to President Obama's abortocratic politics (a good thing) and a sectarian "absolute hostility" to President Obama both as the President of the United States and as a person (which "absolute hostility" is a bad thing). ~ On the relationship between faith and reason -- to return to one of the central questions before us -- I would here simply cite the teaching of St. Catherine of Siena: "Now nothing can be known in Truth unless the mind's eye can see it. So one who wishes to know must rise up with a desire to know by the light of faith and in Truth, and must open the mind's eye by opening its pupil, which is faith, onto the object of truth...." According to St. Catherine's understanding of faith, the light of revealed truths perfects the light of truths attainable by natural reason.
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Posted Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:46 AM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Angelo (I): As a general matter, what recommends moral theology as a religious science of human action, I submit, is a twofold consideration: (1) the fact that moral theology's focus is ACT-INTENTIONAL; and (2) the fact that moral theology recognizes that a human act can also be an OFFENSUM DEI -- an offense against God. Specifically, moral theology asks: (A) How is the ACT under study to be understood? And (B) What is the INTENTION that informs this act? ~ Under study here is the ACT of a 15-year old boy who "in desperate curiosity calls upon Satan to reveal" prospectively the date of this mortal boy's own death. Straightaway I leave aside the dubious supposition that Satan would know such a thing, not to say, the dubious supposition that in God's *general* providence such occult knowledge would be permitted in the first place. ~ Here's the issue: What, theologically, is the correct term for this 15-year old's act of invocation? Is it a sin to invoke demons?
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Posted Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:02 PM By John F. Maguire
(II) Angelo, by way of answering the questions posed in (I),
I draw upon Thomas Aquinas. St. Thomas is clear:
GENERICALLY: "Superstition denotes undue divine worship." "Superstition [in consequece] includes not only idolatrous sacrifice to demons, but also RECOURSE TO THE HELP OF DEMONS for the purpose of doing or KNOWING SOMETHING" [emphasis mine]." On the facts in the present case, this 15-year old boy made recourse to the help of Satan for the purpose of knowing something: namely, the purpose of knowing the date of his death. So, preliminarily, we can conclude that this recourse involves the sin of superstition. Still, we need to take a further step and determine what SPECIES of superstition characterises this teenager's invocation of Satan.
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Posted Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:32 PM By John F. Maguire
(III) Again, Aquinas is our guide. The species of superstition that is characteristic of this 15-year old boy's invocation of Satan is DIVINATION. Divination, Aquinas notes, is a foretelling of the future IN AN UNDUE MANNER. On this view, divination is not the foretelling of the future in the benign sense (for example, forecasting the local climate; forecasting the effects of population decline; forecasting a person's death on the basis of a plausible inference from the symptoms of a fatal illness; etc.). No, divination is the forecasting of future events "in an undue manner". Divination, then, is a "usurpation" of the divine economy of knowledge; as such, it is "manifestly a sin". "Divination," Aquinas goes on to point out, "is always a sin; and for this reason Jerome says in his commentary on Micah...that
'divination is always taken in an evil sense.'" Here Aquinas, I would argue, has brought us the correct term by which to identify the act of invoking Satan so to learn something from Satan: namely, the species of superstition known as DIVINATION. See Thomas Aquinas, _Summa Theologiae_ (II-II, Q. 95). I think St. Thomas's clarification will prove helpful for further discussion.
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Posted Sunday, August 02, 2009 1:02 PM By John F. Maguire
(IV) This brief examination of a 15-year old boy's invocation
of Satan so to obtain occult (prospective) knowledge of the date of his death, remains incomplete because it has yet to address the question of the intensely existential panic that subsequently overtook this boy. "Soon the idea of death [the occult date of which had been 'postulated' to be November 15, 1975] was driving me crazy. I began to do penance and fasting, desperately begging God for my life." ~ Now to be sure recourse to God in prayer is always justified, but superstition has not yet been banished if one continues to credit as knowledge "information" (i.e., the November 15th death-date) that, in all truth, cannot be credited as knowledge in the first place. Nor is a SELF-IMPOSED penance for the sin of DIVINATION in order where, as is normal, the proper penance would be the penance, and just that penance, imposed by one's confessor. Nor need this confessor impose the traditional (Decretal) penance for the sin of divination. Still, for the sake of gaining a certain perspective in this matter, it is worth taking that traditional penance into account, if only as a benchmark. Aquinas writes: "It is written (Deuteronomy 18: 10-11), 'Neither let there be found among you...any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers': and it is stated in the Decretals (16, qu. v. can. QUI DIVINATIONES):
'Those who seek for divinations shall be liable to a penance of five years' duration, according to the fixed grade of penance.'" Thomas Aquinas, _Summa theologiae, II-II, Q. 95. This penance, though severe, is not excessively severe -- and in addition has the salutary effect of fending off self-imposed penances that are often likely to be excessive because excessively intrapunitive.
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 4:21 PM By John F. Maguire
(V) As noted at (I), a sin is an OFFENSUM DEI -- an offense against God. As noted at (II), the sin of calling upon Satan to reveal occult knowledge (whether this "knowledge" is possessed by Satan or not) is one of the forms of the sin of SUPERSTITION. Superstitition involves, inter alia,
"recourse to demons for the purpose of doing or KNOWING something" (Aquinas; emphasis mine). What the 15-old boy in the present case wanted to KNOW (I prescind here from speculating upon the source of this boy's "desperate curiosity") is the date of his own death. Whence the specific form of superstition to which this boy's act of invoking Satan belongs, namely: DIVINATION. ~ Now divination, by definition, foretells the future IN AN UNDUE MANNER (whether by the "help" of a fortune-teller, on the one hand, or by the "help" of a demon, on the other hand). Here, Angelo, I come to an important distinction. It seems to me that you leave unidentified -- and therefor undistinguished -- two quite different sins: DIVINATION and APOSTASY. You write: "I rejected my baptismal promises" -- you mean, when as a 15-year old boy you made recourse to Satan to learn the prospective date of your death. I reply: But to reject your baptismal vows is the sin of major apostasy, NOT the sin of divination. In divination one CONTRADICTS one's baptismal vows but such contradiction doesn't necessarily entail REJECTION of those vows in the sense that in major apostasy one (God forbid) rejects those vows.
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Posted Monday, August 03, 2009 5:11 PM By Angelo
Maguire, WOW!!! One question, did you aquire knowledge for the greater Glory and Honor of God, or was it for your own?
In the Old Testament there is a passage that speaks of a conversation satan had with God about a certain man. satan reminds God that the man is destined for death that very day. God agrees. When the man on his path passes a dead poisonous snake, satan is outraged and complains to God, that that snake was supposed to have killed the man. satan with fury says that, that was the mans appointed time. God
answers yes it was in fact the appointed time. "Did you not see that on his way, He came across a hungry man who had nothing to eat, and this man shared his food with him,
for that I have extended his days." Maybe what happened to me was coincidental. But the fact is! because of it I have totaly consecrated myself to God as an "Alter Victimae Paschali" I love God with all my Mind, Heart, Body and Soul.
Another example, a certain Saint of the Church, because of a dream, believed he was to die soon. He then determined to live his final days of his life doing Gods will. He did not die according to his dream, and became one of the greatest Sts.
of the Church. Oh! how happy mistakes, that have won for us such a Great Redeemer! DEO GRATIAS!
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Posted Tuesday, August 04, 2009 6:12 PM By John F. Maguire
Angelo, permit me simply to say that your thoughtful observations at 8/03: 5:11 PM put me in mind of the Portuguese proverb "God writes straight with crooked lines."
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