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Birds of a feather?

Bishop Jaime Soto will give keynote address at National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries convention


Soon-to-be Bishop of Sacramento Jaime Soto is still listed as keynote speaker for opening night of this year’s National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries in Long Beach.

Bishop Soto is scheduled to address the group at 7 p.m. on Thursday, Sept. 18 -- just six weeks before a ceremony at the Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament in Sacramento in which Soto will take over the diocese from retiring Bishop William Weigand.

The homosexual ministries conference will be held Sept. 18 – 24 aboard the Queen Mary, a decommissioned ocean liner converted into a hotel. The National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries, based in Berkeley, is a network of local ministries that has the reputation of taking, at best, an ambiguous stance on the moral character of homosexuality and homosexual acts.

The group’s web site, which prominently displays the so-called “rainbow flag” of the homosexual rights movement, says there are chapters of the organization in 36 U.S. states, as well as in at least one Canadian province and in Puerto Rico.

Bishop Soto’s planned speech to the homosexual ministry on Thursday will not be his first. In 2003, he spoke at the National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries conference in Palm Springs, though not as one of the major speakers. The theme of that year’s conference was “Out in the Desert: A Wellspring of Hope.” This year’s theme is, “‘I Am Who I Am By the Grace of God’ (A Voyage of Renewal and Rediscovery).”

Bishop Soto, former auxiliary bishop for the Orange diocese, was named coadjutor bishop of Sacramento on Oct. 11, 2007, making him next in line to become Bishop of Sacramento. As a bishop, Soto has been a voice for immigrants and has taken a public stance against abortion, joining pro-lifers in prayer outside abortion clinics. He was also a voice in the Church in support of the 2005 Parents’ Right to Know Initiative.

Among other scheduled speakers at the Queen Mary convention is Sister Fran Ferder, a frequent presenter at conferences held by Call to Action, a group that dissents from Church teachings on women’s ordination, contraception, homosexuality, and other matters. She often appears with Fr. John Heagle, co-director with Ferder of Therapy and Renewal Associates in Seattle. In an interview on The Social Edge.com, Heagle said that his and Sister Fran's hope "is that the institutional Church will only come to this deeper and richer understanding of human sexuality if it listens to the love stories of all the people...”

Fr. Jim Schexnayder, co-founder and first president of the group when it was formed in 1994, told the August 2004 U.S. Catholic that diocesan members of the ministry “all operate within Catholic teachings.” But Schexnayder has also asserted that, since homosexuality can be separated from sexual acts, it can be considered in itself a gift, “something to be integrated rather than denied or feared.”

Also scheduled to speak at the Long Beach convention is Teresa DeCrescenzo, executive director and founder of the Burbank-based GLASS (Gay and Lesbian Adolescent Social Services), which calls itself “the nation’s oldest and leading agency delivering social and health care services to self-identified Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Trans-gender, Questioning (GLBTQ) and HIV/AIDS impacted youth.” Among GLASS’s programs is the Pride Foster Family Agency, begun in 1989, says the GLASS web site, to provide homosexual men and women “the opportunity to experience the special rewards of being foster parents.”


READER COMMENTS

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 12:16 AM By Quanta Cura
This reads like Mahoneys annual dissent fest. God have mercy on us. Fr. Serra must be looking down from heaven with tears in his eyes. Will Fresno's Fr. Listeri be giving the internet class at the meeting?

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 12:26 AM By Dan
The gay-rights advocates in Sacramento ought to be excited by this one. However, since Jaime Soto is one of our precious bishops, I'm sure his topic Sept. 18 will be on the importance of passing of Proposition 8.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 5:39 AM By Margie
"My watchmen are blind, all of them unaware; They are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; ...these are the shepherds which know no discretion; Each of them goes his own way, every one of them to his own gain..." Isaiah 56: 9-11

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 5:53 AM By Fr. M.P.
By their fruits you shall know them. It will be interesting to see what Bishop Soto actually says, especially for a keynote.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 6:42 AM By Aaron
Though it must drive many Catholics crazy, I am encouraged to see attempts to urge acceptance of gays and lesbians into the church. Hopefully, misguided Vatican policies that require gay celibacy will eventually be erased-but such a revolutionary change will probably take 100 years or more.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 7:17 AM By 4unborn
Please post Bishop Soto's speech or a link to it. What he does not say may be more important than what he does say.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 8:43 AM By Thomas
YOUR TITLE "BIRDS OF A FEATHER" IS A VERY POOR TITLE UNLESS YOU ARE STATING THAT BISHOP JAMIE SOTO IS A HOMOSEXUAL; EDITOR, ARE YOU STATING THAT THE BISHOP IS A HOMOSEXUAL? IF NOT, WATCH YOUR WORDS!! The editor replies: This is, supposedly, a conference of those who minister to homosexuals, not a meeting of homosexuals. The headline refers to a shared ideology seemingly at odds with the universal magisterium.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 9:16 AM By Maryanne Leonard
While it feels unsettling to watch people who are supposed to be "of the cloth" appearing to pander to those who openly practice and/or advocate homosexuality, I would hope that the religious who are speaking before or counseling active self-identified homosexuals are reminding them that as Catholics, we are bound to refrain from sexual activity outside of marriage. Of course we definite marriage as between a man and a woman, so the expected response from the gathered minions is "So allow marriage between same sex partners!" To which we demur, following our understanding of God's Word. I wonder why people think that having sex with another person or being married to them changes things so profoundly? If your love is indeed pure, you can be with another person in a loving and respectful way, even make a life with them, without romanticizing your love and without sexualizing it. Love does not have to include all the romance and sex that society and the media have taught us are supposedly inseparable. If love is true, and that is what these couples claim, you can honor and serve and partner with another person, yes, for life, without having to sleep with them or become romantic with them. After all, we are all born separate, and it is by sharing ourselves emotionally and experientially that we attain the deepest interpersonal connections with others. That way, these folks who claim they cannot help themselves, and that they love others of their own sex can live out their lives happily and can also face God proudly on the day of judgment.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 9:33 AM By ann
Unfortunately, I am afraid Bp. Soto is another example of a cleric long on ostensible compassion and short on being able to see the reality of the issue and apply the Church's teaching thereto. On the immigration issue, he does not promot B16's and JPII's position that the best way to address illegal immigration is to fix the sending countries. He does not seem to understand that those of us on the border need the border closedNOW. On the issue of homosexuals, he naively aligns himself with the faction who cannot separate the fact that homosexual leanings are a disorder from the dignity of the homosexual as a person. By his very presence at the conference he seems to mush together the two facts to give the impression that "gayness " is acceptable. "I am who I am by the grace of God?" No, I don't think so. " I am on my way to who I should be by the grace of God" is I believe more theologically sound title of such a conference when referring to the "I" who is afflicted with an intrinsic disorder.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 10:42 AM By Dave
Aaron, the Catholic Church is all about acceptance of PEOPLE. That's always been the case, and it always will be. But the Church will NEVER accept wrong, immoral, sinful activities. Remember, love the sinner but hate the sin. Having a homosexual orientation is not a sin, but homosexual activity is always sinful. This isn't some "Church policy" that can be changed at the hierarchy's whim; this is a law of God. Your beef isn't really with Church policy but with Our Lord. And you need to conform yourself to Him rather than get Him to conform to you. It won't happen. I urge you to repent.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 11:10 AM By RL
Thomas! Do your homework before you start chastising the editor. Check out the NACDLGM website. You are extremely naive to suggest that anyone involved with this organization may not be gay. In 2005 this demented event came to San Jose, CA., and the Bishop of San Jose was the keynote speaker where X-Rated gay pornography was sold at the exhibits. I know because we (the St. Joseph's Men Society) documented this event and petitioned Rome where we are still waiting for a reply. This event has nothing to do with telling gays to go and sin no more. It has everything to do with promoting the sick, twisted and demented gay lifestyle while erroneously calling themselves Catholic.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 11:52 AM By Margie R
"Arise, O God; defend your cause; remember how the fool blasphemes you day after day. Be not unmindful of the voice of your foes; the uproar of those who rebel against you is unceasing." Psalm 74.22-23 Prayer in time of National Calamity "Yes" on Prop 8 and "Yes" on Prop 4. Save California!

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 12:06 PM By Eileen
Fr. M.P. Yes, it will be interesting. Hopefully, several video cameras are lining up to You-Tube it. A couple of years ago I read Bishop Jaime Soto's entire talk to the gays and lesbians in Palm Springs. Bishop Jaime Soto's talk in Palm Springs was a smashing success if his goal for attending was to completely avoid Church teaching. There was not one single inference of inspiration to frequent the sacraments and lead chaste lives. I'm sure this played a big part in his being asked to return. They already know that Bishop Jaime Soto won't 'rock the boat'. It was so disappopinting that Bishop Soto failed to show the "fullness" of charity to encourage gays and lesbians to carry their Cross while joining them for the celebrations of love. Why are so many Bishops afraid to love all of us, (including gays and lesbians) with the Teachings of the Catholic Church? Bishop Jaime Soto will safely give example by praying in front of an abortion mill. Why didn't Bishop Soto courageously give the Church's teaching example to the gays and lesbians in Palm Springs? I guess that Bishop Soto is also aware of the Bishops and fellow clergy that teach that homosexuality is a "gift to be embraced". A few years ago a very good priest said that California was sunk when Archbishop George Niederauer was installed in the bay area. Very soon, Cardinal Mahony, Bishop Tod D. Brown, (who sent out an official diocese memo to his priests supporting homosexual domestic partnership) and a few other gifted clergy will retire. Let us continue to pray that the Holy Father will embrace our sinking California ship with holy and courageous leaders. There is always the hope that these lost souls will be converted by prayers and through the intercession of Our Lady. It is because of this hope, I will try to charitably refrain from expounding more on their choice of meeting on the good ship lollipop, 'Queen' Mary.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 12:10 PM By Harry
It may be that Bishop Soto's aim is to truly minister to homosexual people - that is to help them accept the Church's teaching on sexuality. I sincerely hope it is. Trouble is, the promoters of the gay lifestyle are past masters at manipulating the Catholic Church, to make genuine ministry look like approval of their lifestyle. That's a rather loathsome features of the gay movement. It is dishonest, but it has been surprisingly effective in the past, and is a major danger for any Catholic who wishes to be involved in such ministry. Many well meaning people, lay and clerical, are not alert for it. Let's write Bishop Soto and suggest that he needs to make a clear distinction between ministering to such people and approving their lifestyle. He needs to make clear public statements to the effect that he is ministering, not condoning, because that is not at all clear from the news reports. We must heed Jesus' words to be "as cunning as foxes and as gentle as doves".

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 12:52 PM By Sawyer
Why does the conference have to last seven days (Sept 18-24)? Not even the political parties' conventions lasted as long. What is there to say or discuss about diocesan lgbt ministries? Is there a lot of social time? I'm familiar with the research that says homos are promiscuous; I suppose you can fit a lot of hanky panky into seven days.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 12:54 PM By Margie
Do we wait and see, or do we start writing and phoning the Bishop's office and voicing our concerns before the speech? Perhaps, he will have other more pressing commitments to attend to than this speech? Let us pray that this is the case because God can and will hear the prayers of his faithful ones!

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 1:07 PM By Anne Calle
I believe Bishop Soto is being realistic, just as the Gay Community is being honest and realistic about the way Our Savior has made them. It takes Courage to accept life on the realistic level and we operate on the "Realistic Level, when we do the things that have to be done." There are gay priests who entered into Holy Orders, thinking that the church would wash away their sexual urges. These men were not operating on the realistic level and, in fact, swore falsely when they took their vows. I am proud of the Honesty and Honor of my Gay Friends. I hope that this out reach to them will be successful.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 1:34 PM By RWS
Those that call themselves homosexually "oriented" are not always telling the truth that they are all one way. I have personally talked with people who claimed to be gay but privately admitted that they were pretty bisexual. And guess what happens if one hangs around this kind of culture--the straight gets snuffed out pretty easily. It is an alluring ideology for the vulnerable. Again, this is from absolutely first-hand, unequivocal statements from close acquaintances of mine living the homosexual lifestyle. The GLBT agenda is awash in half-truths and non-truths.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 1:50 PM By Seina
Dose anyone read scripture anymore? Did God make a mistake when He blew up Sodem and Gomorrah ? What an abomination before the Lord. READ Genesis chapter 19

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 3:14 PM By Lane
Anne Calle. I was married for 17 years and went through a civil divorce (not by choice) before becoming a Catholic. I now live a chaste life because I know that anything else in my state is an offense to God. I have “sexual urges”, but I also have control of my passions. To act on these “sexual urges” outside of a valid marriage is a serious sin. (Regardless of what the State says, same-sex marriage is not, and never will be a valid marriage!) If you are proud of your gay friends, try reading Romans 1:31-32. “Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.”

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 5:34 PM By Laurette Elsberry
Anne Calle, God did not make homosexuals "that way". I'm sorry that you are perpetuating the lie. All through history sodomites have strived to overtake society with their perverse ways. Every culture that has succumbed to this vice on a large scale has perished. This will happen to the United States. Sodomy, which is really what "gay" is all about, is an abominable affront to God and His Natural Law. Those who support the sodomite lifestyle - call it what you will - are risking eternal damnation. This includes all the following who have supported the "gay" lifestyle: Cardinal Roger Mahony, Archbishops Niederauer, Levada, and John Quinn; Bishops Soto, Weigand, Brom, Walsh, and basically all the California bishops. Why? Because none have spoken out against it. "If you are not with me, you are against me". When you do not proclaim the Gospel of Christ you are working on behalf of Satan. Contact Bishop Soto at BishopSoto@Diocese-Sacramento.org, or call him at 916-733-0100 and urge him NOT to sell out God's Law and Catholic teaching by affirming the sodomite lifestyle at the NACDLGM conference next weekend.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 5:34 PM By Anne.Calle
Lane, Don't lay that Scripture Business on me. You have to live, not just in THE BOOK, but in the truth of reality of the here and the now. Plenty of priests, brothers and nuns spout Scripture everyday; and look how many of them turned out. Were they thinking of Scripture when they raped and sodomized their way through over 100,000 children in the Catholic Church in America? (Who knows how many more around the world). What you've chosen to do with your life is your business. Let other people handle their Ilives in their own way. And if two consenting adults find love, I'm happy for them.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 6:02 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Harry, As one who lived under Soto's duplicity for many years, I say to you "dream on you dreamer!"! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 6:35 PM By Margie
Let us hope and pray that the only "bird" present at the gathering is the Holy Spirit of God who will lead the gathered into all truth. Come Holy Spirit of God, come!

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 7:53 PM By Steve
AnneC: I'm not sure where you get your "over 100,000 children" statistic, but such a number of victims of the deplorable sex abuse crisis in the Catholic Church in America is not of "the real world" you seem so comfortable defining for others. And please show me the part in scripture where Christ says, "Just let others be and live your own life." This is actually anti-Christian. We are not supposed to condemn our brothers and sisters, but we are absolutely supposed to call sin what it is and not to simply allow lies which normalize it to go unchecked. Being 'gay' is not a question of genetics. But to raise your sexual preference to the level of identity is an affront to both faith and reason. That such an affront is common does not exonerate those who spread this lie. We are indeed to love our brothers and sisters who suffer from this pathology, but it is not loving to endorse their behavior and their flawed reasoning and sense of identity.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 10:22 PM By Sarah
Steve, when someone says, "I'm gay" or "I'm a gay person," that, to me, describes their sexual preference as they've experienced it yesterday and today and reasonably expect it to be tomorrow. If that's their experience, that's their experience. And to the extent that identity incorporates experience, it's descriptive of their identity as well.

Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 11:29 PM By rodolfo
When are we going to listen to the "Prophecy of Fatima? This the beginning of the terrible punishment deserve it to all us for not have the guts to openly but, with charity resist to the face, the liberal acts of most of the USA bishops. Please, we must act against the liberal agenda within the Catholic Church, and pray the Holy Rosary daily for our Catholic Bishops. Mother of God pray for us.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:09 AM By Anne C
Steve, watch the award winning documentary film, "DELIVER US FROM EVIL"; that will answer your questions. Our Lord taught us to think for ourselves; to work things our for ourselves. If we didn't, we would all be sitting around waiting for the Holy Spirit to feed us, clothe us, house us, etc. Scripture? As I've said, pervert priests quoted scripture too, and what happened? You lose yourself in scripture and forget your humanity. You talk about NOT condemning, "our gay brothers and sisters"; and then you go on to condemn them anyway. How many gay people do you know? How many clergy sexual abuse victims do you know? What attempts have you made to reach out to either and/or both of these groups? What are you doing to protect children from the horrors of sexual abuse? Just reading scripture won't cut it.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:35 AM By Patrick
Having anything to do with such a detestable group, is a disgrace and a scandal.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:43 AM By Dan
Anne.Calle, I agree with Steve. It is easy to believe unbelievable statistics if you despise the Church leadership. But truth is truth, and our commitment is to avoid mendacity. If you persist in believing a lie, you are telling us about the melancholy state of your own heart, and not about the Church. I implore you, examine yourself, and root out any hate you harbor toward the Church, which is the ark of your (and my) salvation.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 5:49 AM By Brian B.
"Wrong is wrong even if everybody is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it.” --- Saint Augustine "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." --- Flannery O'Connor "Wanting to reconcile the Faith with the modern spirit leads not only to a weakening of the Faith, but to its total ruin." --- Pope Saint Pius X

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:38 AM By stiggy
Do you really think God would state that man should not lay with another man and then give a person homosexual desires. It is a brilliant trick of the devil, he prays on us in our weaknesses even at a very young age. The more people living the homosexual lifestyle the less people there are to be fruitful and multiply as God commanded us to do in Genesis.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:43 AM By george
The hierarchical appointments continue to be problematic ... so much emphasis on the pastoral & so little, on doctrine. Maybe B16, following in the footsteps of his predecessor, has moved on to the pastoral and left the doctrine stuff for Lavada.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 7:51 AM By DFTotty
Now that God has revealed his building plan for this thing called human (human genome map) I believe his answer to "Didn't God make me this way?" has come down to us in a very definitive "I certainly did NOT!"

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:08 AM By maria
God has never, can never, will never, make a mistake. That is the truth. To say you should have been anything other than the way you were at birth, is false. If the gay life is condemed in the Bible and in our Church teaching for over 2,000 years, then it is condemed. It is as simple as that. No man can change what God has ordained. From Adam and Eve to now, man has tried.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:35 AM By Dora
We pray that if this event is not God's Will, (for we don't always see God's plan in things He allows) that He Himself will not allow it to go on. We pray that everyone involved will turn to God and rely on Him for all of their needs and that those who are offending and displeasing Him will return to Him and receive His love and embrace Jesus' gift of Salvation by turning away from their sin with true repentance and contrition. We pray for radical conversion and deliverance. We trust in You, LORD! LORD, HAVE MERCY!

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:23 AM By Leo
Homosexuality is from the EVIL ONE, period. Satan's time is almost through...Our Lady's Heart will Win. Pray for those who sit in the blindness of their actions. Pray for our youth and All Families. Hold on to the TRUE Faith!

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:31 AM By JFK
Anne Calle, You make a point when you said " were they thinking of scripture when they raped and sodomized their way through 100,000 children in the catholic church of America?" The answer is NO! They were thinking of the best way to indulge their dispicable urges and to gain access to as many children in an undetected, unquestionable place of athority. These people, if they had made their perverted preferences and intentions known before entering into the seminaries they would have been turned away and not allowed to become priests and religious. But as it turned out they didn't and as these perverts progressed through the ranks they recuited more of the same. THAT, is why there are bishops and even Cardinals who are allowing this diabolical mess to go on. God gave us his laws and he showed us many times throughout history when he was displeased with humanity. But people are weak, they reject God and fall often into the devils snares. Open your eyes and pray for guidance!

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:42 AM By Jay1
Anne C., you say "about the way Our Savior has made them". What is your basis for suggesting God made homosexuals?

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:48 AM By Cindy
I really believe that the bishop plans to help his flock to choose the path of heaven. He is walking in the lion's den to save his sheep, didn't Jesus dine with the greatest of sinners like prostitutes, tax collectors, and the like? Wasn't he criticized? Can we expect this bishop to not do the same? Jesus came to save the sinners -- this Bishop is doing the same. I applaud him.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM By SacCatholic
I warned you about Soto, he is the next Mahoney (and lets hope not the next Weakland).

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:39 AM By Cindy
Please pray for this bishop. If the devil can get the leader, he can get the pack! Satan attacks the Bishops and priests, his number one target! From there, he can get the pack. Many have left the Catholic church because of bad priests and bishops. It's foolish! It's like leaving Jesus because of Judas!

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:43 AM By DM08
This is a trend in the Church, even Francis Cardinal George gave his blessings on the anniversary of the founding of the diocesan gay group (glow), which took over when Dignity was removed from the parishes. I guess that's better than Bernadin though, who used to come a celebrate gay masses for the diocesan group.----------------RL is correct these events are basically a respectable place to meet Mr/Ms right for many of the particpants.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:46 AM By Cynthia
As usual, people mistaking feel-good for fact. 2 Tim 4:1-8 Catechism, #2348 "All the faithful are called to chastity." 2349 "Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence." (In other words, you only have sex with your spouse.) #2357 "'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.' They are contrary to the natural law... Under no circumstances can they be approved." What part of no do these people not understand? Anybody who thinks with their heads rather than their . . . reproductive organs . . . will quickly realize that homosexual behavior cannot be natural. The design is Tab A into Slot B. With two of the same sex you're either missing a tab or you've got an extra tab and nowhere safe to put it. Documented fact that aberrant sexual practice (whether practiced by same or opposite sex) leads to increased damage to lower GI because that area isn't designed for that use! Homosexuals, just like alcoholics, have a temptation that they must overcome, but like alcoholics, they must not give in to that temptation lest they lose their souls.;

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:33 PM By Helene
Those re-interpreting God's word and Catholic teaching to justify their sinful lifestyle need only re-read the accounts of Our Lord's Passion in the Gospels to realize the price He paid for our sins, including homosexuality. God took sin, all sin, so seriously that He sent His Only Begotten Son to die in our place. It is the height of pride and folly to think we sinful creatures can break any moral law we want with no consequence.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:36 PM By mariam
There is no discovery of any gene discovered and the human genome is thoroughly researched) that confirms a person is born a homosexual. It is a choice and an easy one, devoid of responsibility to God, family, and society and it is a selfish choice. The catholic/christian clerics and laity who buy into this fallacy and encourage this lifestyle by their presence at these gatherings, are never invited to participate in them if they disagree with this lifestyle, but only if they support it. Irregardless of their vows of obedience at ordination to the magisterium of the Church, it shows that they are no longer part of the Church, and should voluntarily remove themselves or risk excommunication. Many young people are being led astray by example and they should remember that Jesu said 'anyone who destroys the innocence of a child will suffer eternal damnation'. Even the elect will be deceived the bible says. A battle is raging within the Christian Church - good against evil, and the prize is our immortal souls. I am glad to see some Church fathers fighting back against the pressure to change Catholic Church teachings on faith and morals. It is not a democracy but a unique institution founded by Christ himself to preserve and pass on the Divine Truths. I am very glad that some are resisting 'situation ethics' and 'pick and choose' Catholicism. Society may place great emphasis on individual freedoms and desires, or inconvenient restrictions to behaviour, but some things are not open to change because they are not ours to change and the Catholic Church is one of them. It is a universal instrument to teach all mankind, not another level of government to overcome or circumvent.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:54 PM By Mary
I'm with Margie. Shouldn't we begin our communication with Bishop Soto with our concerns NOW? Perhaps if he knew the faithful will be watching and listening to his address at this conference, he will do the right thing. Does someone have information where we can e-mail him directly? Prop 8 has to pass. He needs to address this issue at the conference.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:55 PM By Sue
I heartily agree with the responses from Ken Fisher and Steve. We are called to reject the sin, but to love the sinner.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:10 PM By PAM
I agree that there is a place for everyone in Christ's Church, the Holy Catholic Church. Not knowing where this Bishop stands, it seems hasty to predict what he will say, but if what he says is against Church teachings, then I hope his contemporaries will reprimand him as quickly as Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden were. Engaging in sex outside of marriage is a sin...regardless of the type of sex. The call for single people to remain celibate or chaste is for all single people, hetero & homosexual alike. The Church will never change it stance on this. Sin is sin. Yes, I realize how "uncool" or un "PC" some think it is. The Church is not in the popularity business but in the salvation business.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:32 PM By Sawyer
Anyone else notice that the convention is being held at THE QUEEN MARY? No Hollywood script writer could have chosen a better setting. Ha! What a double entendre: on the one hand, I'm sure plenty of queens will be in attendance; on the other hand, they would do well to acknowledge the queenship of Mary in heaven so they could get their lives on track.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:04 PM By Joseph
I support Bishop Soto's participation in this conference, as I support the conference itself. More and more of us straight Catholics are coming to see homosexuality as an inherently normal and healthy manifestation of God's creation.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:45 PM By Luke1:38
Bishop Jamie Soto's email given by his sec. - bishopsoto@sacramento-diocese.org

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 4:17 PM By Marsha
What would Jesus do? My take is that He would minister to all God's people without condoning the sin. I think the title of the article smacks of insinuations, also. Take care not to cause others to jump to conclusions or raise gossip issues.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 4:46 PM By Lisa T.
Dear RL, You and the other members of the St. Joseph' Mens Society should come down to Long Beach and gather more evidence, not for the Vatican but for a You Tube presentation. It figures there was X rated Gay porn at the 2005 event. Homosexuality is all about the sex just look at MHR parish in the Castro and what has been going on there for years (decades).************************************************************Quote from RL "In 2005 this demented event came to San Jose, CA., and the Bishop of San Jose was the keynote speaker where X-Rated gay pornography was sold at the exhibits. I know because we (the St. Joseph's Men Society) documented this event and petitioned Rome where we are still waiting for a reply. This event has nothing to do with telling gays to go and sin no more. It has everything to do with promoting the sick, twisted and demented gay lifestyle while erroneously calling themselves Catholic. "

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 5:55 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Cindy, What you wish for could have been true except for the FACT that Soto has already been there and NOT done what you wish for! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:04 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Mary, Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc conducted a prayerful demonstration outside while Soto did his stuff for NACDLGM the last time, and I believe St. Joseph' Men videotaped it, and he still isn't doing the right thing! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:55 PM By Marjorie Atherton
OH, Marsha, I was in the court room the day San Diego Bishop Robert Brom was asked that very question, "What would Jesus do"?; when Brom was being asked about the sexual abuse of children by the Clergy of the Roman Catholic Church. I can tell you that, Brom, the priests with him, the members of the bishop's staff, as well as the bishop's attorneys, all burst out laughing. As a Roman Catholic, it was a sad and humiliating thing for me to witness. And I would not have believed it if I had not been there in person. To think that Brom, a man who is supposed to be in the "Jesus" Business, would laugh when asked what Our Crucified Lord would do about the rape and sodomy of innocent children by the Clergy of the Roman Catholic Church. Believe Me, Marsha, THEY (The Hierarchy) Don't Care.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:00 PM By Dan
" More and more of us straight Catholics are coming to see homosexuality as an inherently normal and healthy manifestation of God's creation. " That's an interesting point of view, Joseph. It falls in line with what worries me-- that Soto's participation in the conference indicates he entertains a similar mindset to that of yourself. Why else appear at the conference? To implore those present to promote the Church's teaching, as Cindy hopes? Joseph, if homosexual sex is normal and healthy, may I ask what is abnormal and unhealthy? I might add more and more Catholics are at peace with abortion as well. Just ask the Catholic democrats in Washington and in almost every state of the union.

Posted Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:58 PM By Anonymous
Cardinal Mahony will preside at Officer Spree Desha's funeral at the Cathedral on Thursday. She was the police officer who died in the Metrolink accident. The LA Observed blog states: "The Advocate has posted a story about Desha that quotes her life partner, Laura Gerritsen, saying 'she was such a giver -- she didn't have a bone of hate in her body.'" Why would the Church not only refuse to marry women like her with her life-partner but also advocate for the hurtful Proposition 8 if they finally see the healing compassion of reaching out to our GLBT community members.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:58 AM By ray linton
Sept. 8th not only is a holy day for me to celebrate Gods gift to me for the birth of Mary my Mother, and Mother of Jesus my Savior, but also the day i celebrate my birth to living completely an obediante child of the Church, obtaining the grace to live a celebate life after living a life of 35 years in the homosexual orientation life, and the last 21 years with the same partner. Yes all is possible in God for those who Love Him, Thanks be to God! ray linton

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:21 AM By Jay1
Joseph, what is your basis for saying God created homosexuals?

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:40 AM By Grisha
I followed Spree Desha's story on the web but didn't know she was Catholic. A century and a half since Irish Catholic immigrants joined the NYPD in droves, it's amazing how many of our faith are still drawn to the public safety professions. God bless Officer Desha and may He comfort her family and friends.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:47 AM By JFK
You people who say "what would Jesus do" don't seem to have a clue!! When Jesus came the first time he came as a lamb. He set forth to teach us what was right and wrong in a gentle way like a parent. The second coming of Christ he will come in all his glory as a king and judge. We are to obey the laws of God as Jesus told us, or there will be severe consequences as Jesus told us!! We cannot take advantage of the goodness of God to do our own will or there will be SEVERE CONSEQUENCES!!!! People cannot assume what Jesus would do, they are not God and they cannot know the true intentions of any person. Although a persons actions speak volumes. It is most likely that the reason Bishop Soto has been asked to speak at these conventions is not because they value his insight into the truths of the Catholic faith, but that he is willing to put his soul in hell to futher this disordered agenda. May Jesus, Mary and Joseph and all the saints pray for us!!

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:56 AM By JLS
So, the late Officer Desha's significant lesbian other will gain govt benefits for the loss of a meal ticket, blessed by a cardinal?

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:09 AM By Victoria
I agree, Anonymous. But Prop. 8 will not pass. Besides, they cannot pass a law that will keep people from loving each other. I have often wondered what some of these hateful bloggers, who continuoisly rant about Homosexuals would do if they were in the throws of a heart attack, or some other emergency, if they wouldn't say to the Paramedic, or Fire Fighter, or Police Officer, or Doctor, or Nurse, or anyone else coming to their rescue, "Wait A Minute!!!! Before You Save Me, Are You Gay or Lesbian"? It would also be interesting if one of these bloggers were bleading to death and aGay or Lesbian, Police Officer, Paramedic, Firefighter, or ANY of these HEROS were to wear badges reading, "I Am A Gay Person. I Can Treat You, Or You Can Wait To Be Saved By A Heterosexual". I'll bet the person bleeding out would accept care from the Gay Professional.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:06 AM By JLS
Grisha, how in Christ's Name can a practicing lesbian be a Catholic at the same time? Surely you can cite the section of the CCC which points this out, right? So little time, so much to learn. I'm thinking that there are many who believe that Catholics are born, rather than born again; now, it is true that Jews are born. But in order to be a Christian it requires baptism. Additionally by contrast, a Jew can never not be a Jew; however, many of the baptized cease to be Christian. Therefore, it seems likely that there is a strong confusion between these two situations. Maybe it is a good time to bring out chapter and verse, all the Magisterial documents on the topic, or at least sufficient to expose the error of this perennial claim. *** Victoria, when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, life went on not only as usual in the region but even better. That is why God destroyed those homosexual fanatics, to improve the life of the rest of the population. Now can you come up with some other reason that God vaporized all the inhabitants of those places?

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:12 AM By Grisha
.JLS - Her partner, Laura Gearitsen is also an LAPD officer so I don't think she needed a meal ticket. I hope the cardinal's words are a comfort to Officer Desha's parents, Officer Gearitsen and her colleagues

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:41 AM By Grisha
JLS - How do we know if, and what, she was "practicing." Did the St. Joseph's Men's Society put a hidden camera in her bedroom or maybe the confessional at her parish church? Last time I looked all of us Catholics were "practicing" sinners. We just need to "practice" harder at being Catholics.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:25 AM By JLS
Grisha, I'm thinking more of the spiritual meal ticket. There are innumerable immitations created by man to take the place of the beauty and love that God offers us. None of these things is found in homosexuality. *** Victoria, I see your problem now: You are putting the Church under the rule of the homosexualists. The Church, nor God, does not need any homosexualists. Rather it is the other way around. Homosexualist, as well as victims of clerical sex abuse, especially children, need God. God works through the Church. Unborn babies are being slaughtered daily, 4000 per day in the U.S. alone. Where are all these loving homosexualists who are busy working to stop abortion? They do not exist; and thus your fantasy that the public at large needs cpr by lesbian police people is meaningless, nothing more than another deception. If they do not do their job, per government rules, then they get sacked (hope you like the pun). Now, you have a point for the future; if the public drops its drawers for homosexuality, then, sure, everyone would have to depend upon the vengeance of the victims of child sex abuse who grew up and donned uniforms with the ultimate purpose of exacting justice. Let's see, now; in such a possible world, the lesbian grantor of life on earth speeds to the rescue of an injured hetero, and the first thing the lesbian savior says is some gratuitous thing such as you put forward in your post, ""I Am A Gay Person. I Can Treat You ... "; whereupon the nearly comatose victim replies, "Treat me to what?" "Well", says the homosexualist, "since your heterosexual peers throughout history have given us such a bad time, we're going to give you love in return". The movie screen goes blank at this point, but only for a moment. Then brilliant scenes roar out from the darkness, and we see the vibrant and vivid Castro Street Faire, in all its glorious pride of perversion. The credits begin to scroll down the screen as the "Dance of the Macabre" begins.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:22 PM By george
Homosexuality is not genetic, but it is contagious. God gives us free will to make choices in life. Good people can be convinced to make very bad choices, and their bad choices often influence others to make similar life-altering choices. These choices may "feel" good and may "feel" okay, but are contrary to God's desires and detrimental to our souls, and possibly our eternal salvation. People like Grisha applaud the making of such choices. He revels in their moral demise. He encourages them in their lifestyles and supports their incursions into teaching their perversions of God's plan to our children. Grisha can be proud of statements such as those from Joseph "More and more of us straight Catholics are coming to see homosexuality as an inherently normal and healthy manifestation of God's creation." who has apparently swallowed the lie hook, line, and sinker. All the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were not born homosexuals, nor were they normal and healthy manifestations of God's creation - they were propagandized and converted - and in the end, all were converted by force. God was not smiling - but Grisha is. Hmmm.... choices and free will - Catholic truth or demonic lies?

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 4:25 PM By Victoria
Dear Marsha, I too was in the San Diego Court Room the day Bishop Robert Brom and his flunkies all laughed when asked what Jesus would do. It was such a sad and insulting thing; not just to the Victims but to Our Poor Crucified Lord as well.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:26 PM By Jay1
Grisha, it is part of Catholic teaching that we avoid the near occasions for sin.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:49 PM By Victoria
George, on what scientific and/or sociological data do you base your information concerning the causes of homosexuality? I would be willing to bet.....NONE. Your remarks, no doubt, come from your own uneducated ideology.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:36 PM By MarkF
I lived for over thirty years in the homosexual deathstyle before coming back to the Church earlier this year, praise be to God! The big lies that the homosexual activists spew: 1.)The myth of the "loving monogamous same sex couple." In my thirty years I never saw anything like this. I saw couples get together with a lot of energy and passion only to see it end. I've seen couple who "play" (a really sickening expression) with others, i.e., who have sex with random strangers outside of the their relationship. I've seen people who are real sex addicts too, guys whose whole live is about sex with strangers. 2.) "Gay marriage won't affect you" The biggest lie. If same sex "marriage" is legalized, it's going to be taught - propagandized - in all the public schools. Biblical, Christian teaching will be portrayed as repressive and bigoted. Your kids will come home hating the Word of God. More radically, the legal and social concerts of male and female, man and woman will be ended. We already see in California that the words husband and wife are not obsolete. Even worse, with marriage redefined to be two consenting adults, there will no way to stop incestuous marriage, or polygamous marriages. 3.) Homosexuality is natural, healthy and inborn. Homosexuality is caused by a bad upbringing. In over thirty years there was not one single gay person who I knew who did not have a massively messed up childhood. You can't build a castle on a swamp, and this is why the "gay" world is so messed up. Conclusion - Take my word and thirty years of experience - and don't believe a word that "gay" activists tell you. They never will tell you the truth which is that they hate the normal, they hate the Word of God and they're out to destroy everything healthy and holy. Most are deluded and are like a junkie looking for their next fix. But you still can't trust them. We need a constitutional amendment to defend marriage.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:43 PM By Grisha
Jay1- - True ... would you like to share how you do that in your own life? By what audacity do you judge Spree Desha? At the pearly gates what will be your creds to enter? "Oh.. I never had sex with a person of my own gender?"........ 90% of people are sheep. 5% are predators. 5% or less are sheepdogs. Spree Desha and Laura Gerritsen are sheepdogs. May God bless them and may He teach you to be grateful for the protection they and their colleagues provide for all of us!

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:07 PM By Ted
Jay1, living with one's same sex partner is not always a near occasion for sin. There are in fact quite a number of same sex couples who have no sexual attraction to one another, and their (non-sexual) domestic relationship provides them with support to avoid occasions of sin which they would not have were they not so coupled. Similar situations exist among many married opposite sex couples as well.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:19 PM By Dan
"I have often wondered what some of these hateful bloggers, who continuosly rant about Homosexuals ..." Victoria, I must admit a forum is not the most apropos fmeans for communication. A consistent rash judgment I read in these posts is that any disapproval of homosexuality is HATE. Well how should someone who agrees with the Church that homosexual acts are disordered advocate such a position? If people take great exception to the Church's position, they just might take any such expression of the Church's teaching as hate: You disagree with me, therefore you hate me. You advocate for Prop 8; therefore you hate me and hurt me and keep me from loving etc. etc. Such exasperating superficiality really makes it hard to discuss anything relating to this issue.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:33 PM By JLS
It ultimately does not depend whether homosexual tendency is genetic. The consequences of sin carries down many generations, according to Scripture. Certainly there is no gene for it, yet there could be genetic damage that moves a body towards such a thing. But like I said, the necessary thing is to resist the temptation, no matter it's apparent source. Man is genetically disposed towards many possibilities, many of which he finds pleasure in; yet our life's work is to worship God and extend His love to our neighbors. God does not do homosexual things, which is made evident in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as in the laws He prescribes. Because God is all loving, and is love, then it follows that homosexual activity has nothing to do with love, nothing to do with God, and is therefore opposed to all that God is and wills.

Posted Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:42 PM By JLS
Ted, that's a good one. I live with my house, but I don't know if it's male or female; nevertheless, it provides me with some of the benefits you've mentioned. I also live with two same sex others and an opposite sex other. The op-sex other has had many children but none by me ... one of the same sex others has sired many children by this op-sex other. It is hard to say how many, since there was another same sex other who sired some children by the same sex op-other. She bore twentysix children, and I sold many of them to nice homes. Some I just gave away. She helped locate and find a lost op-sex other in a canyon one time, and I gave that babe to the neighbors, who provide her with the backyard to live in. Now, I'm waiting for the govt to start sending me money for all these same and op-sex others ... oh when oh when will the laws change to give us true freedom?

Posted Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:36 AM By Jay1
Grisha, I did not judge anyone. I simply stated Catholic teaching.

Posted Thursday, September 18, 2008 7:06 AM By Jay1
Ted, if as you say, there is no sexual attraction, then is no near occasion for sin.

Posted Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:34 AM By george
Victoria, please provide us with any definitive evidence that homosexuality is anything but choice. I've been researching the topic for years - many distortions and opinions - no truth. So please, enlighten us with your scientific wisdom.

Posted Thursday, September 18, 2008 1:13 PM By george
Mark F. - that was beautiful - thank you for your experiential insight.

Posted Thursday, September 18, 2008 3:14 PM By marcum
I'll add Bishop Jaime Soto of Sacramento to my list of Catholics 'not to be trusted near my family' Expose those who do harm to the holy family

Posted Thursday, September 18, 2008 8:27 PM By Lance
George, it might help if you define what you mean by "homosexuality". Sometimes the word is used in reference to deliberate sexual activity and sometimes the word is used in reference to preference or subconcious attraction. If you are using the word in reference to deliberate sexual activity, then I doubt many people will bother to argue that choice is involved. On the other hand if you are using the word in reference to preference or subconcious attraction, there is really little to no science to substantiate that choice underlies it to any meaningful degree. In that sense, the bounty of evidence as understood today strongly suggests that such is not a choice but comes about through a combination of biology (e.g. maternal factors, hormones, chemicals, etc. and perhaps to some unknown degree some as yet not understood genetic factors but not necessarily a particular "gene" per se), circumstances and environmental factors like many conditions in life.

Posted Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:35 PM By Victoria
No, George, I asked you first. You've been studying? Studying What? Studying Where? I am waiting to be enthralled by YOUR Data George. What Degrees and Honors do you hold in the Fields of Psychology and/or Sociology? You are the one making the definitive statements as though they are fact. Perhaps the editors of the CCD will allow you to submit an article on your expert findings. Please Do, George. I shall be looking forward to it.

Posted Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:48 PM By Victoria
Dan, it is not fiction. It is fact. And I don't have to leave the church because YOU say so. I have a right to remain and work for change, just as you have the right stay and continue putting up with the same old failures. Also, the church would not be the church without Gays.

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 6:24 AM By Jay1
Even if homosexuality has a biological component, I see no reason for asserting "God made homosexuals". To me it would be like other biological based conditions - like disease and disorders. These are all consequences of Man' Fall and not God's doing.

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 8:32 AM By JFK
Victoria, what God makes has a purpose and an end result that makes the body function at it's best. If you only look at the function of homosextuality you find the opposite result and very harmful consequences. How can this be ordained by God? There are alot of educated, seemingly inteligent people who make mistakes and misconceptions about many things because they rely on their own intelegence instead of God's! It was the simplest of men that our Lord took as the Apostles not the intelectuals that sought their own glory. You seem to be disregaurding the writings of these men. You cannot argue with God, You won't win!! If you are a Catholic and care about the truth then take another look at the Bible writings, inform yourself. Don't come on here ranting and spewing the crap you get from the Universities of today. You will never get a balanced veiw from them because they always lean to the left.

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 9:41 AM By Aaron
George: You said: "Homosexuality is not genetic, but it is contagious" Woweee! Now, I have heard everything! Just imagine how many people I have affected in my lifetime-I am 68 years old, first recognized my attraction to boys at about age 4; prayed without ceasing from age 18 that this curse would be taken from me; got married at age 26 (social pressure), fathered 2 children, my wife died of cancer after 32 years of successful marriage. I finally went into counseling and ended up just accepting the fact that I have ALWAYS been attracted to my own gender. Have been in a 100% monogamous relationship for almost 8 years. Accepting my attraction to men and finally admitting it to everyone, including my kids and my Pastor has been completely liberating. By the way, my kids love Tomas, my life partner. If homosexuality was contagious, then my kids and all my friends would be gay! Guess what? Almost everyone I know is clearly heterosexual. IT IS NOT CONTAGIOUS: IT IS NOT A DISEASE: IT JUST IS!!! 90-95% of the population is heterosexual; the remaining 5-10% is either bisexual or homosexual. Nobody knows why, it just is. By the way, I had a completely normal childhood-my three brothers are all 100% heterosexual!!! They didn't catch anything from me!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 1:04 PM By Erwin
Jay1, heterosexuality is also a biological condition, as is dandruff, disease, your height and your age, That you "see no reason for (fill in the blank)" or that you see some things as "good" and some as "bad" is also a biological condition involving brain chemistry and social conditioning, say scientists. Indeed, say scientists, there is nothing about you as a biological entity that doesn't have a biological component, including your thoughts about God and "Man's Fall". You can argue this all you want, but as long as you believe in the existence of biological conditions, you cannot prove (without contradicting yourself) that your argument and beliefs arise from anything but a biological condition.

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 3:22 PM By george
Victoria, I am not here to defend anything other than my faith and my children. You can do and believe anything you wish. However, when on a Catholic forum making the same false dogmatic statements that have altered the lives of far too many of the unwary and vulnerable, it’s time to intervene. Who I am, what I do, or degrees I have is irrelevant to the conversation, and for someone of your demeanor, I could be the 2nd coming of Christ and even His credentials would still not be good enough for you. As for the “I asked you first” comment, that’s the point. I have read numerous studies over the years, and though they have set out to prove homosexuality is an inborn trait, genetic or otherwise, none have proven that to be the case. Actually, I think it would be great if such a trait could be proven, because then we could test for it. We are human beings with free will and rational thought. As such, even with such a trait, we would not have to act on such impulses. I actually believe however, that if science ever discovered a genetic link to homosexuality, it would be the homosexual activists themselves who would suppress such information. You might ask why they would not wish these results revealed; because, the vast majority of professed homosexuals, would not possess the trait. They have been groomed and convinced that they are homosexual. Imagine their reaction when tested and found, like Mark F, that they were lied to, that they are not homosexual. So, I cannot show you a study that proves homosexuality is anything other than a choice. In other words, I have found no study that shows homosexuality is innate. Back to you; can you produce such a study? I’d love to read it. God Bless you on your journey. PS: God doesn’t like it when His children are led astray. I’d check my motives and my facts before proceeding further.

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 3:35 PM By George
Lance, yes, as you've read, the APA is being forced to alter its once hard and fast (but wrong) stance that homosexuality is innate. Now they've back-peddled to include the possibility of numerous other factors - which is the case - but not from the womb. The point is, that protecting our children from such influences until they are mature enough and have enough information to make their own "choices," and understand the ramifications of their "choices" is what we as Catholics Christians, parents and believers of the natural order of things need to be concerned with. Read Mark F's post. 30 years of his life - for a lie. How about your son or daughter? Are you willing to sacrifice them? Turn them over to homosexual activists? Homosexuality spreads through contact with other homosexuals, particularly when introduced during vulnerable youthful periods. Who do you trust with your children?

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 4:37 PM By Victoria
No, George, You were the one who brought up the fact of, "Study" and "Expertise" in the Field of Homosexual Attraction. Therefore YOU made, "who and what" you are, more than relevant. Did you not throw down your gauntlet for my expertise on this subject? So, George, You Go First. Please Give Us Your Thoughts, Backed Up By Intelligent Scientific Data. I'm Waiting.

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 4:49 PM By JLS
On the question of a gene for homosexuality: Such a thing would make them a different species, one which cannot produce offspring with Homo sapiens.

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 6:08 PM By Lance
George, the APA's stance clearly includes the mother's womb and other "inborn" factors. To quote the APA today, "In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality." Note that “at an early age” means BEFORE a person is "mature enough and has enough information to make their own choices" and BEFORE he’s had any “contact” with other homosexual persons, which contradicts all the points you were trying to claim. A person can "choose" all he wants to be attracted to same/opposite sex, just like I might "choose" to eat something I don't like, but choice is not sufficient to actually make that person be attracted to it. Many homosexual persons have "chosen" to get married only to later admit they were pretending due to social pressures. The consensus regarding the research is that human beings cannot choose to be either homosexual or heterosexual, and that sexual orientation (whether it be homosexual or heterosexual) becomes apparent in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. MarkF's post doesn't prove otherwise. MarkF is welcome to believe what he wishes and to not engage in homosexual activities, but so can any heterosexual person decide not to engage in heterosexual activities. No one has said a person is forced to engage in sex acts. MarkF's unscientific theory is that homosexuality is caused by "bad upbringing", but lots of people had "bad upbringing," including many if not most heterosexual persons. It doesn't prove that "bad upbringing" causes homosexuality any more than it proves that "bad upbringing" causes heterosexuality, or that homosexuals are more sensitive or tend more to recall "bad upbringing" than do heterosexuals, or that parents may adversely react to subconcious clues regarding their child's homosexual orientation and thus cause a "bad upbringing".

Posted Friday, September 19, 2008 10:20 PM By JLS
What we're witnessing in the "gay gene" is the missing link in evolution. This has been sitting right under the nose of everyone without being noticed. The creationists have claimed that there is no missing link, and the evolutionists have counted on a missing link ... but now the argument is moot, because of the discovery of the "gay gene". Gay people with this mutant gene are really a new species of homo ... I don't think the scientists have as yet coined a species name, however. May I suggest Homo sexualensis. Now it is also possible that it harkens only a mere subspecies, a missing link which is the link to an actual new species and not just a sub species. It could be called Homo sapiens sexualensis. Whatever it is, the main thing is that it proves the theory of evolution, and justifies homosexuality. The world now has the duty to protect this new species or subspecies, so that it does not go the way of the Neanderthal or the snail darter.

Posted Saturday, September 20, 2008 10:30 AM By Jay1
Erwin, You seem not to believe in God but only a material universe. It is also curious that you bring up your apparently atheistic or agnostic beliefs only after a religious argument that undercuts a religious pro-homosexual view is brought forward. Where were you when the pro-homosexual religious belief was made suggesting God created homosexuals? Are you being selective in your application of your atheistic/agnostic arguments? I agree, I cannot prove my arguments arise out of biology only. But I have Faith and Jesus said Faith was of upmost importance. I do belief God has revealed heterosexuality is a biological condition. If you believe in God’ revelation to man, then God’s created intent was for heterosexuality. God’s created intent was not for man to die. But as a result of Man’s Fall death, disease, disorders, not to mention sin have resulted. Just because something has a biological basis does not prove it was of God’s doing –as some pro-homosexual religious seem to think. Nor can they provide revealed evidence from God’s Word or Tradition supporting this. Nor is merely my thought’s on the result of Man’s Fall (read the Catechism) If Man’s Fall is to be done away with as a belief, then there is no need for Jesus’ atonement on the cross for our sins, nor belief in the Resurrection. It seems acceptance of homosexuality will have consequences other than acceptance of immoral behavior. And all for the greater glory of active homosexuality.

Posted Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:31 AM By RR
Come on homosexuals and homosexual supporters! Scientists cannot find a gene because there is not a homosexual gene. You're looking for an excuse to be able to use your own free will and continue to commit mortal sin and live this vile lifestyle. God intended for a man and a woman to be together. God did NOT make you this way. YOU chose to live this lifestyle. Period.......... Homosexuality is a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. Because of Adam and Eve we all sin. One of my biggest sins, that I always go back to, is spending too much money. I know I shouldn't do it, but I confess it and make a firm purpose of ammendment. BUT, I still at times am tempted and CHOOSE(Free Will) to commit this sin again. I hope some day scientists can find a gene that causes people (like myself) to spend too much money. Then I and others will have an excuse to continue sinning and spending money and it won't be a sin anymore. Right?

Posted Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:45 PM By George
Lance, The APA position statement you cited is APA’s “old” statement. Following much insistence that it provide factual evidence to back up its position (which APA is unable to do) APA put quietly altered their position statement to read: “There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles...” Can you detect the back-peddling? The bottom line is that homosexuals create more homosexuals. It’s contagious. Contact with homosexuals is the primary cause of homosexuality. Children are particularly vulnerable and should be protected - not use for non-scientific social experimentation.

Posted Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:12 PM By George
Victoria dear, As I explained previously there is no data to show you. All attempts to prove that homosexuality is innate have failed. There is nothing more to tell you. The ball is in your court. The APA can't show me any evidence that homosexuality is anything other than a choice - if you think you can, now is the time sweetheart.

Posted Monday, September 22, 2008 5:42 AM By Aaron
RR: For clarification, can you please tell us when you discovered you were heterosexual. You notice I didn't say when did you first commit adultery or have your first sexual encounter. Rather, I am asking you when it was in your lifetime that you discovered you were attracted to the opposite sex?..... This is a critically important question. The vast majority of straight people answer truthfully by saying "I never even thought about it." ...... Such is not the case with gays. Early on, I thought "gee, that boy is really cute." Later on, I thought "gee that boy is really sexy." I then thought "everyone else likes girls; . . . I guess I will grow out of my attraction for boys." But guess what? I never did. It bedeviled me my whole life that I was different; I prayed fervently EVERY DAY for deliverance. I never acted on those feelings until middle age (40), and lived outwardly as a straight father....That is the difference between straights and gays. It isn't a choice to have own gender attraction....It is a choice to naturally follow the path that you are made to be. You chose to be married and live with a woman. I chose to be married to a man, so I could have the same sense of belonging, security, love, care, intimacy, tenderness, that you took so naturally....it took me a lifetime (age 59) to finally accept what I had been since my first attraction at age 4....even though I am gay, I believe God wants us to have the security and intimacy of a life partner. Uneducated, irrational straights don't accept it, but it just is!

Posted Monday, September 22, 2008 9:10 AM By George
Aaron, educated rational straights don't accept it either. Therapy is available. The issues you noted at age 4 will be a good place to start with your therapist. Life is more than sexual attraction. Violation of God's principles might be exciting, but in the long run - living by God's principles will enable you to be happy, joyous, and free. Trust me, you will not find security in a same sex life partner, and you are not "gay." There is a solution, you just have to want it and take the action to get it. Christ said "take up your cross and follow me." He didn't say "I want you to have security and intimacy with sexy boys." Uneducated, irrational, homosexuals don't accept that, but it just is! (just because we want it doesn't mean it's acceptable or appropriate)

Posted Monday, September 22, 2008 1:09 PM By Alan
George, I was curious about your post vs Lance's so I contacted the APA today to inquire and was given BOTH the quote that Lance posted and the quote that you posted. Namely, though "no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors," it still remains that there is "considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality." In other words, scientists haven't "concluded" that any particular factor or factors are IT, but recent evidence "suggests" that biology is important and scientists are still investigating. The bottom line was that, "Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles. Most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation." I also asked them about your belief that contact is the primary cause, and they said. "There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age." For confirmation, you can contact the APA Help Center.

Posted Monday, September 22, 2008 6:09 PM By fshs-3in1
Bishop Soto's presentation to the National Association of Diocesan Gay and Lesbian Ministries in Long Beach, CA, on 9/18/08 can be read by going to the Diocese of Sacramento's world wide website (diocese-sacramento.org), Latest News & Updates, "Bishop Soto speaks out in support of marriage and Proposition 8" at the bottom of the home page.

Posted Monday, September 22, 2008 11:26 PM By George
Thanks Alan, I started reading all available research on the subject in the early 70's. Pro-homosexual scientists have been stretching every available resource in an attempt to "prove" that homosexuality is anything other than nurture and choice. There have even been remarkable, well publicized findings that, after all the media blitz, have quietly been thoroughly refuted by greater studies that set out to confirm the findings only to discover that the original study is not reproducible, ie. the original study was significantly flawed and its results misleading at best - fraudulent in actuality. So, yeah, they come up with the same old verbage-garbage - "a complex quacka, quacka... " In the meantime, such language still leads to the promotion of the homosexual lifestyle which is infecting our young people by the thousands. Lives are ruined, diseases are spreading, lifespans are reduced significantly, all because the agenda of the APA is to promote homosexuality and not true science. The APA doesn't give a flying flip about honesty or integrity, it only cares about its agenda. I've been reading their crap for 35 years. It's time they were honest with the public and stated that homosexuality is taught/learned behavior and that engaging in such behavior is a choice. It also suppressed the health risks that have been repeatedly proven to exist as a result of homosexual activity even though it is killing our young people in droves.

Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:38 AM By Aaron
George....You have got to be kidding me. Therapy?... you mean reparative therapy that has been dismissed by literally EVERY recognized authority in the AMA, APA etc as completely ineffective??? You don't change someone's orientation: e.g., how easy would it be for you to become attracted to men rather than women? Additionally, the therapy is psychologically damaging to more than 20%.... you must not have read what I said:...32 years of marriage living & acting like a straight father, praying every day for deliverance from my natural attraction to men. You say I won't find security in a gay relationship?.... Well, how about the security, intimacy, communication, caring, loving, 100% monogamous relationship I ALREADY HAVE HAD FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS!!!...Your posting is a perfect illustration that the uneducated/irrational straights just don't get it... Take a walk in my shoes, pal. I'm gay like millions of others, just like me. Gays have been part of humanity from the beginning of time. Nobody knows why, it just is. It has been far better to accept myself as a child of God and get on with life as it was dealt. I have never been happier than now!!!!! Tell me I am going to hell because of something you read in Leviticus - I don't care. My aim on this blog is to increase understanding... My congratulations to Bishop Soto for the essential work he is doing. Perhaps it will help reduce the high suicide rate among teenagers who discover they are gay, but are turned out by their families, friends and the Church. Read the book "Prayers for Bobby" to further educate yourself: it was written by a Mom who thought she was doing the right thing by posting Bible references on Bobby's mirror every day - sending him for therapy & counseling with the youth pastor at church...Bobby jumped off a freeway viaduct and his body was pulverized by a semi trailer. So much for counseling/therapy and Bible verses.

Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:53 AM By Jay1
Aaron, a child of God strvies to obey God's Will. His will for us is to not sin. Engaging in homosexual acts is a sin.

Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:33 AM By Aaron
Re. George comment 9/22 to Alan....You overlook the fact that gays have been walking the earth as long as mankind has existed, despite efforts by religious zealots/ governments that tried desperately to wipe them out. This is no modern phenomenon sponsored by the horrid APA..... For example, gays that existed across Europe in the 15th century did not have the APA on their side. People like Michelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci escaped death from the thousands of church sanctioned burnings at the stake only because they had incredible talent and worked for the Vatican. The Spanish Inquisition fueled the fight against gays (thousands killed) that you continue today. Attempts by the church, the Nazis, Muslims to rid the world of gays have all been for naught, because God just prompts same sex attraction to about 5-10% of the babies born in the world every day.....you can quarrel with all this - I don't care, but facts are facts. You can't make it go away. It just IS....You imply that gay relationships are flawed (but I doubt you even know a gay couple)...For example, Tomas and I live very ordinary lives: we go to work every day, pay the mortgage, mow the lawn, clean out the closets, sometimes entertain friends (both gay and straight couples), sing in the choir, give to charities, go to church on Sunday, If you met either of us, you would have no idea that we sleep together. We don't wear dresses/high heels, don't have loose wrists, don't have a lisp. We are just ordinary people. The only thing extraordinary about us is that we have a lot of difficulty with irrational people that condemn us or try to take away our rights (e.g., Proposition 8).

Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:08 AM By Jay1
Aaron, are you working actively to have the Church change its doctrine concerning homosexual acts? Have you ever tried working with the Courage organization?

Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 11:02 AM By Jay1
I read what the Bishop had posted on the website referenced by fshs-3in1. I thought it was excellent.

Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:09 PM By George
Hi Aaron, Yes therapy. It works. Every recognized authority that is controlled by a homosexual oriented board of directors and who are funded by homosexual organizations oppose reparative therapy, but my friend, it works. Why does it work? Because the causal factors of homosexuality are grooming, training, and - well essentially brain-washing by those who have convinced you that you are one. No, reversal is not easy, but if you are tired of living the lie of homosexuality, then it may be worth it to you. As for suicidal ideation and actions, far more such incidents are brought on following the young people's realization that they have been betrayed, used, and are now, (following relentless propaganda by their groomer) damaged goods. How can they find a self respecting member of the opposite sex to be with them now, how can they look themselves in the eye in the mirror knowing what was done to them, or they left themselves unwittingly open for and now can't reverse. The guilt and remorse often finds such teens swinging in the rafters. All because some kind homosexual wanted a new conquest - and maybe then told other classmates about what they had done to them. Very few suicides occur from people who have SSA, but many occur from those who don't, but have been convinced that they are gay, or can't shake the stigma of having been "initiated." As for you. I'm sure your wife and children are really proud of your unselfish decision to wallow in your own self-indulgence. As long as you are happy, that's all that matters. The APA will gladly support, "affirm," you in your endeavor. After-all, isn't choosing your own happiness at the expense of others is the way God intended? As for Leviticus, no, that was the Old Testament, not that the basic teachings are any less valid. However, The first chapter of Romans is very apropos to your situation. God gave us free will - He asks that we choose Him. You have made another choice -based solely on self.

Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:31 PM By Jeanie
Aaron, your comment as a gay says it all: "I have never been happier than now!!!!! Tell me I am going to hell because of something you read in Leviticus - I don't care." Parents love their children and worry about their souls. Gays like yourself apparently do not, and especially not since gay-lesbians tactics are to convince gullible teenagers that they are gay also. Stay away from our children, we don't want you to lead them to hell! We love them for their innocent souls, you and your kind do not, only to corrupt their minds and bodies. Those like yourself have been misled by Satan to believe yourself as gay and promote your sin to make it acceptable by all. God does not make people gay-lesbian; however He lets the Satan tempt them into believeing so. In the Bible it says He made us male and female to procreate according to His Will. You will be held accountable for deceiving the innocent. Has your sin impacted your family for the better? That ought to be an indicator about right from wrong, unless of course you are deceiving them. The church can not compromise with gay-lesbian sin or any other sin for that matter, only forgive those sinners and tell them to go and sin no more. To compromise means to condone; to condone sin means to break away from God's Truth. Please don't try to gain our acceptance of gay-lesbian sin through sympathy of your life experiences. Plain and simple gay-lesbianism like adultry, murder, stealing, coveting, and disobedience to God's Laws are all sins. God forgives us if we are truly sorry, confess sins before a priest, and amend our lives i.e. go and sin no more. This is written in the New Testament! If you are happy to defy God and greviously sin for a short life-time on earth as a gay-lesbian in exchange for eternity in hell, that is your choice. Just don't try to shove your den of gay-lesbians sins upon us. Love the sinner, but hate the sin! May God help us all.

Posted Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:47 PM By Eileen
Aaron, How should a faithful Catholic respond to your statement that you don't care if you end up in hell? You said that your aim on this blog was to increase understanding. A faithful Catholic's aim is to have Eternal Life. Did you want the very best for your wife and children? Do you think that you love the individual that you are living with enough to want the very best for him? So far you are choosing the very worst thing for everyone, especially yourself. I do have compassion for individuals with same sex attraction but that compassion can never include sanctioning acts that are contrary to God's Wisdom and Laws. You state that you don't care if you don't get to spend eternity with God. Aaron it sounds as if you are saying that it is best to withhold truth from people because they might end their lives. That is not real love either Aaron. Many people carry many different unique crosses that are crushing inside. They are able to carry these crosses because they have complete trust that God will never abandon them. They know that this life is short and they do not want to spend eternity apart from God. There are many different reasons why people take their own lives. Faithful Catholics will always love the sinner but reject the sin. No temporary relationship is worth an eternity away from the God who created you and loves you, your wife, your children, and the individual you are currently living with. Aaron, you are the one who is posting here. You are the one with the tender enough conscience to even share your trials. Please understand that faithful Catholics want the "much bigger picture" for everyone. This means sacrifice. Many people sacrifice every day for people they love and for God. I know that you will say how happy you are but you must still have a flicker of hope that your eternal life is worth more than any temporary relationship. Why not choose the best for everyone? You can still do that. That is real sacrificial love. Many do achieve it!

Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:46 AM By Larry K
Aaron… there is no such thing as a homosexual orientation. No one is "oriented" (directed) towards such behavior naturally, as it is an unnatural act that goes against the natural law of God. This labeling of homosexuality as an "orientation" is nothing but a cop-out to try and justify one's behavior. You need to "grow up" and take responsibility for your actions -- that is what it means to be an adult. I have a NEWSFLASH for you -- everyone is tempted to sin at various times in their life. We are all required to fight against these temptations and deny ourselves what is wrong with help through prayer and with prudence in our actions. Scripture (1 Corinthians 6:9) … says the effeminate (people who put up little or no resistance to sin/evil) will not inherit the kingdom of God. Aquinas in his Summa explains this [Qestion:138: The Vices Opposed to Perseverance] "… This effeminacy is caused in two ways. On one way, by custom: for where a man is accustomed to enjoy pleasures, it is more difficult for him to endure the lack of them. On another way, by natural disposition, because, to wit, his mind is less persevering through the frailty of his temperament…." It's clear that you are using this sinful relationship like a baby soother -- a comfort to your life. You can live without your sinful pleasures (the security, intimacy, communication, caring, loving, 100% monogamous relationship as you call it). As out Lord says, we must pick up our cross (deny ourselves what is wrong) on our road to salvation and do what is right. There is no maneuvering room here -- you must avoid occasion of sin -- cast these sinners from your presence with a vehemence, as they will lead you to fall into sin at the eternal peril of your soul. You were foolishly led into these sins because of your own imprudent actions, so you must man-up, accept your errors, and fight for your eternal salvation -- it is required of you. If you are not worried about spending eternity in hell -- you are a fool.

Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:15 AM By Aaron
George, Jeanie & Eileen..... For the record, I have NEVER nor will I EVER proselytize a teenager to engage in a sexual act....PERIOD... That would be strictly against my beliefs and principles!!!. I am here only to share my life only in an attempt (fruitless, I fear) to have upstanding Catholics understand that same sex attraction is not a choice. My only choice (as with your choice to be married to the opposite gender) was to permanently share my life, care, affection, intimacy, companionship and love with another human being!!!. This is not temporary, but rather a lifetime commitment the same as when you took your wedding vows.....This in no way impacts, nor does it degrade straight marriage, which is essential for the propagation of the species; at the same time, our commitment to each other is NOT LESS than a traditional marriage between a man and a woman....Speaking of children, what will you do if one of your kids/grandchildren tell you they are gay? Will you throw them out of the house, as many parents have??? Will you force them into reparative therapy at the risk of permanent psychological damage (and it doesn't work, ??? I can tell you from very personal experience, NOBODY would EVER CHOOSE to be attracted to their own gender. Think about it... why would anyone CHOOSE to be abused or bullied by others?? CHOOSE to be thrown out of their own home??? CHOOSE to be laughed at??? CHOOSE to be hated, beaten up or maybe killed by a homophobic???? CHOOSE to be turned away by the church???? The answer: NOBODY would choose to be born with a same gender attraction.... it makes life far too difficult.....Despite what it says in Romans or Leviticus, the church needs to extend its blessings and acceptance on gays and lesbians as children of God....and encourage them to live a normal life...finding the partner of their choice with whom to share their lives.....I know it may drive you crazy, but gays deserve to have the same fulfillment in life as straights.

Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:55 PM By Eileen
Aaron, You forgot Someone important. Jesus chose to be mocked, beaten, bullied, betrayed, rejected by His own and crucified. Why would He choose this? He chose it so you would not have an excuse to not carry your cross. No servant is greater than the Master. Aaron you need to understand that homosexuals are not the only people on the face of the earth who have to carry enormous crosses. You just don't want to carry yours. Your personal cross is much greater than Christ's passion and suffering on the Cross for our redemption. Aaron your cross is not just your struggle with same sex attraction. Your problem is that you are completely self centered to the detriment of everyone who has loved you. Especially God. Faithful Catholics can never be joyful for your 8 years of mortal sinning. You are hurting the souls of everyone involved. Just admit that you don't want to carry your cross.

Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:06 PM By George
Aaron – yes, you are correct; homosexuals have nearly always walked the earth. Those who seek their own deviant pleasure, despite natural law and God’s law, continue to walk the earth – as do thieves, murderers, adulterers, etc. (despite societies attempts to rid the world of criminals, they just keep popping up – they too learn it from others). However, do not deceive yourself into thinking you or anyone else was “born that way.” Do you recall when Satan put Jesus on the parapet of the Temple and tempted Him – I will give you all of this and more – anything you desire – if you will bow down and worship me. I think you enjoy the view from the parapet. No self-sacrifice for you! Lust and self indulgence are the tools of the demonic. It’s not God that makes homosexuals – or criminals. Singing in the church choir is a nice touch though – sort of adds sweetness to sin – thumbing your nose at God in His own house. As I said earlier, homosexuality is not genetic, but it is contagious. As such, homosexuality is basically caused by contact with homosexuals – the younger the age, the more damaging the results. As such, it is the duty of society to keep homosexuals from contact with our youth. You mentioned Prop 8 and a “right” for homosexual marriage. Marriage, my friend, long predates the laws of this nation and all others. As such, it is not for the state to modify or dictate to. If there ever was a valid church/state separation issue, this is it. You can call yourself married all you wish, but sorry, it just ain’t so (do you want to be partner A or partner B?). If you really love Tomas, I suggest you help him to return to Christ. Love, or lust, there’s a big difference – love requires sacrifice, lust is just selfish...

Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:26 PM By Aaron
Larry: Just for the record, most gays are not effeminate: I'm not; Tomas is not. Also, for the record, the bravest people I know are those who had the GUTS to tell their parents/children/friends that they are gay. Telling your family you are gay is not for sissies! The EASIEST thing in the world is to PRETEND you are straight, so you don't have to face up to reality. That's what I did for 32 years until my wife died of cancer; then and only then did I finally just face up to the fact that God, in his wisdom, was never going to answer my prayer for deliverance from same sex attraction...it terrified me to tell my adult children...to face the possibility that they would never speak to me again and our family would be destroyed... Thank God they accepted the idea...my kids love my partner Tomas, very much... Also, Larry, if you met Tomas or me, you would NEVER suspect we are gay... Neither of us has any outward sign we might be attracted to our own gender...no baby soother here...I took the tough road, not the easy one you would suggest...and I am grateful to be living as God intended me to live...whether you like it or not.. it was imprudent for me to live a lie and get married in the first place...I know you won't, but it would be smart for you to get to know a few gay couples who, like us, have very ordinary lives and serve God every day... if you don't want to accept that, it is ok...the one thing you DO NOT have the right to do is to take CIVIL rights away from gays and make us live as second class citizens. I live in Spain today only because Federal Immigration laws openly discriminate against gays---I was unable to sponsor Tomas for a green card... that right is available only to someone who is married...and federal laws don't recognize gay marriage. Good that we landed in Spain which allows gay marriage...Spain's legislature approved gay marriage in 2005 despite Vatican sobbing...It has not impacted traditional marriage one whit!!!!

Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:32 PM By George
Aaron: You are proselytizing just by presenting your kind, loving, generous, spiritual self as homosexual. Acceptance of homosexuality as “okay” in today’s socialist climate will necessitate all factions of live to accept and promote it as “normal” despite knowledge, belief, nature, and religious teaching to the contrary. Speaking of psychological damage – reparative therapy produces far less damage than the degradation produced by the learned behavior of homosexuality. You profess to be Catholic, as such, I don’t understand your comment that “Despite what it says in Romans or Leviticus, the church needs to extend its blessings and acceptance on gays and lesbians as children of God....” No! I know it drives you crazy, but because of what it says in Romans and Leviticus the Church needs to continue to inform you that your lifestyle is contrary to God’s will, is wrong, is intrinsically disordered, can be forgiven, but can NEVER be accepted or condoned. Yes, you choose to live the lifestyle you are in. It makes the lust all the more intense – forbidden fruit – the garden – ring a bell? Adam and Eve got thrown out of the garden… remember? God didn’t say “oh, you CHOOSE to disobey me, you’re my children so that’s okay… No, He said “get out.” However, for our redemption, He sacrificed Himself (Christ) for us. That whoever believes and follows (obeys) might return home. You say you ‘deserve’ fulfillment? Based on what? “I want, gimme, gimme. Can you spell selfishness? Truthfully, what you deserve as a child of God, is the opportunity to ask for forgiveness and turn your life around. Choose good over evil. I know you know the difference.

Posted Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:16 AM By Jay1
Aaron, you seem to think that the Church should change its position on homosexual activity because there may be a biological component. I also believe there is a biological component along with environmental and cognitive components, as well as free will. I suspect just about all sins can make this same claim to varying degrees. Nevertheless, the Church cannot change its position regarding active homosexuality (or others sins). If there is a biological component this make things more difficult. Hetererosexual oriented people should not assume an attitude of moral superiority. Homosexuals who are truly trying to remain celibate, even though they may fall occasionally, I believe are closer to being saints than many heterosexuals. BTW, Leviticus and the New Testament passages (like 1 Cor and 1 Tim) refer to all forms of homosexual activity. There is no distinction made for what you describe as monogamous, loving, relationships. And not because they were unknown in antiquity either.

Posted Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:32 AM By JFK
Aaron: If you cannot come away from this information with a new resolve to change your life then here's something else to consider, HIV & Aids! This is a deaseas that is a direct result of homosextual acts and it is killing people!! How can you not see how much it offends God when he chastizes so harshly? How can you put youself and your beloved Thomas in danger of this desease if you really love him? It is quite obvious that you don't even love youself because you are willing to disregard the warning signs and put yourself , Thomas and any other young confused person with these tendences that you encourage in harms way. Also regarding you claim that you knew you were attracted to boys at age four! I certainly don't know anyone who thought about any type of sexual attraction at age four! Are you going to tell me that because you liked playing with Trucks and other little boys and doing the things that all little boys like to do somhow made you attracted to them. I have four boys and they all like playing and being with other boys, and my daughter likes playing and being with other little girls. How on earth did you come to conclusion that you were attracted to them at age four. Something must have happened to you to make you think that way at all, and I am pretty certain it was not something natural. Aaron, you will not be able to go before God and claim ignorance, you will finally have to admit that you knew you were wrong all the time and willing decieved yourself and others. You will also have to take responsiblity for any other souls you dragged down with you! It's not too late yet to change and to ask forgivness. May God have mercy on your soul!

Posted Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:54 PM By Jeanie
Aaron, you said: "...Spain's legislature approved gay marriage in 2005 despite Vatican sobbing...It has not impacted traditional marriage one whit!!!!" Your claim doesn't matter. Our justice Heavenly Father, is the authoritative source and the Truth. He can send any of us sinners to hell for eternity. For many He gives ample opportunities to change, repent and amend our lives out of His love for us. Unfortunately as sinners we do not no the day nor the hour of "our end of the world" where we will be judged. God has said in the gospels, we need to be prepared at all times for that event. You and the other gay-lesbians defy His Will and will be judged accordingly. Your opportunities become less with each passing minute. Misleading souls to hell via gay-lesbian sins for eternity is worse than murder. For the death of the soul is worse than the death of the body.

Posted Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:50 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Aaron, I have lived with other men as roomates for many years, and I have loved some of them with the love of Christ. I failed my Lord and my God and My Mother many times in sexual triste with women, but I never tried to justify such failures. In fact I left a very attractive topless dancer who many men lusted for and I had her, because I knew that I could never receive the Blessed Sacrament as long as I stayed in that relationship. You have an opportunity to reach great sanctity by resisting your sexual urges and insisting that your friend do likewise, and you also have the probablility of eternal damnation if you don't do so. I am praying for your eternal soul. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com

Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 9:16 PM By Charles O'Connell
Anne C, get the facts about "pervert priests". Catholic Priests present the lowest incidence of pedophilia among any group in society - ministers of other faiths, healthcare professionals, family members and, especially, school employees. From the beginning this "pervert priests" business has been a calculated propaganda campaign in the media: First, in the revels around the Council it was announced that the Church would be "liberating" priests from the age old constraints. Later, when some started acting out, the dominant society condemned any attempt to rein them in as "repressive". Then, once lawyers got in on the act, helped by the unfortunate "management" practices of the American hierarchy, the media's tune was inverted, and what they had proclaimed to be a right - keeping in mind that exploitation of young people is the core value of the homosexualist movement - was now turned against the Church in the minority of cases of abuse. These news media supposedly scrupulous about the truth, studiously avoid the tiniest mention of the fact, that virtually all the abusers are the homosexuals whose rights they formerly upheld. You've been brainwashed by the media, Anne C. Better stop reading the National Catholic Reporter and start listening to EWTN, before you fall into a morbid mindframe and lose all regard for the truth.

Posted Monday, October 20, 2008 4:33 AM By Joseph
Ex catherda, Dogma "outside the Catholic faith there is no salvation" as Catholics we must believe these words. If practicing gays are not even Catholic for being Manifest heretics.(Being Ipso Facto ex communicated by themselves) Why is all this attention payed to these non Catholics? This is not even a issue at my Church, they don't even come to Mass!

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