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Published: September 26, 2008
Liturgical shakeup
Benedict XVI replaces all members of Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff
Vatican City (CNA) -- Pope Benedict XVI has made a low profile but significant move in the direction of liturgical reform by completely changing his liturgical consultants.
 A hardly noticed brief note from the Vatican Press Office on Sept. 24 announced the appointment of new consultants for the Office of Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff. It did not mention, however, the importance of the new appointees.
The new consultants include Monsignor Nicola Bux, professor at the Theological Faculty of Puglia (Southern Italy), and author of several books on liturgy, especially on the Eucharist. Bux recently finish a new book, Pope Benedict’s Reform, printed by the Italian publishing house Piemme, scheduled to hit the shelves in December.
The list of new consultants also includes Fr. Mauro Gagliardi, an expert in dogmatic theology and professor at the Legionaries of Christ's Pontifical Athenaeum “Regina Apostolorum;” Opus Dei Spanish priest Juan José Silvestre Valor, professor at the Pontifical University of Santa Croce in Rome; Fr. Uwe Michael Lang, C.O., an official of the Congregation for the Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments and author of the book Turning Towards the Lord -- about the importance of facing ad orientem during Mass; and Fr. Paul C.F. Gunter, a Benedictine professor at the Pontifical Athenaeum Sant Anselmo in Rome and member of the editorial board of the forthcoming Usus Antiquior, a quarterly journal dedicated to the liturgy under the auspices of the Society of St. Catherine of Siena. The Society, which has an association with the English Province of the Order of Preachers (Dominicans), promotes the intellectual and liturgical renewal of the Church.
Also relevant to the appointments is the fact that all former consultants, appointed when Archbishop Piero Marini led the office of Liturgical Celebrations, have been dismissed since their appointments were not renewed.
Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 1:35 AM By Margaret
YEEEEHAAAWWW!!! Go Holy Father, Go!!!
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 5:11 AM By Geremia
Pope Benedict XVI wants us to rediscover our rich liturgical traditions. Deo gratias!
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 5:28 AM By St. Christopher
This seems to be wonderful news.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 7:19 AM By Tom Byrne
Whole lotta shakin' goin' on!
Sounds very good.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 7:48 AM By Margie
"Let us fall into the hands of the Lord and not into the hands of men,
For equal to his majesty is the mercy that he shows."
Sirach 2.18
The people of God have waited patiently for a long time to worship Him in spirit, in truth, in dignity. Thanks be to God that our dear Pope Benedict is setting us on a path to liturgical reform. Our liturgy is precious. Our liturgy is our gift to God and I want to see it as the most beautiful expression of our love, our thanksgiving, our offering of praise to God the Father through His Son with the awesome power of the Holy Spirit.
This is good news to all of us in the pews. I anticipate widespread crossovers from other faiths into our churches as a result of deepening liturgical reforms.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 8:27 AM By Fr. J
Looks pretty good to me.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 8:40 AM By Valerie
Please help the Diocese of Raleigh. The Bishop suggests the changes as per the magisterium and some of the priest in Eastern NC ignore him. It is very sad. Please help us our church still sings the protestant Our Father and hold hands during the Our Father and they do not kneel for the consecration. Also the Extriordinary Ministers congregate on the Altar behind the priest instead of waiting down below until the Priest has recieved. The Priest who is not following the orders is the Vicar for the area and so he can not be repremanded. It is very sad...he will not say a Latin Mass even though he was trained in Latin. He has expressed no great liking of Pope John Paul II or many of the things taught to bring the Church back to proper reverence and order. It is very hard for the authentic Catholics to live with this, help us??? Pray for us.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 8:54 AM By Vincent
What wonderful news. I am eager to see what the new staff will do.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 10:07 AM By Fr. M.P.
The focus on the Sacrifice and the sacred is returning.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 11:32 AM By Salvatore G.
Thank you, Holly Father.
Molte grazie, Santo Padre.
To pray the Rosary does wonders.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 12:19 PM By Dan
For Margie, it is not just in North Carolina that priests wage war with Benedict. They waged war against JPII before him. I don't know how large the number is; I do remember an encounter with a priest at a Trappist monastery in this state in the 90s whose animus toward JPII was startling. He tried to sway me over to his side, as one would do if one were engaged in a political battle. It is sad to find "cafeteria Catholics" in the priesthood.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 12:43 PM By CatholicInCa
Yea!!! Thank you, Holy Father!
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 12:55 PM By benedictgal
Now, if only this would spill over into the USCCB. We need a return to the sacred in this country. The bishops had a wonderful opportunity to engage in real rerform in Sing to the Lord and bring us into comformity with Liturgicam Authenticam. Unfortunately, they succumbed to intense pressure from the FDLC and the NPM. Maybe this will open their eyes.
The Holy Father, unfortunately, got to experience the banality of our music during the DC Mass at Nationals Stadium. Thank God that we have Pope Benedict XVI.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 1:33 PM By mairin
Re: Valerie's comment. Sounds just like the Archdiocese of Baltimore. Our pastor refuses to offer Mass in latin although many of us have requested it. I pray our Archbishop will imitate our Pope.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 3:20 PM By Elaine Suhre
Bless our Pope Benedict XVI. This is a start and an important one. Now the indiviudal parishes need to work on their RCIA and catechetical reforms. Way to Go!!!!!!!!
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 5:06 PM By JoAnn
Many Bishops need to be replaced as well. They won't be able to ignore Pope Benedict as easily as they did Holy Father Pope John Paul 2
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 5:38 PM By mark
spread the good news,pray hope and don't worry!
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 5:40 PM By doubtful
Great...now we can have yet one more thing the Pope does for average Catholics to ignore. This will not change the parish on the corner. The average American Mass will still be a "Mess".
It's going to be tough to turn around the downhill spiral the Church is in when its own clergy clearly hate the Mass. They think they are being cool by making the Mass insipid. When I was a teenager, I stopped going to Church because it seemed hypocritical to say that this is the most important act we have and then turn around and play stupid guitars and tambourines. That was the 1980's...20 years after Joan Baez was already out of style and yet nuns were still tyring to force this junk down our throats. As an adult, I tried to go back, but found it has only gotten worse.
And now I hear this stuff about how Benedict XVI is going to right all the wrongs. As a young priest, Josef Ratzinger practically wrote most of Vatican II himself...he and his friends Hans Urs von Balthesar, Yves Congar, Karl Rahner, etc. With Ignatius Press publishing HUvB as if he were an orthodox theologian and with bishops like we have in the western world, there is no chance to recover. For every decent bishop like Chaput, there are 100 satanic ones. And as good as Chaput is, 50 years ago he would have been considered dangerously liberal.
And young priests who think they are conservative are the worst. They have the authoritarian attitude, and they use it to ruthlessly enforce liberalism. Thanks, Stalin.
Seriously, I cannot bear to go to Church anymore. Even the EWTN Masses, which are about the best around, are tainted by the fact that today's arch-conservatives are last century's heretical liberals.
This Church is lost. I just can't take the nonsense anymore and there is no fighting from with in. I already lost that battle.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 6:41 PM By Stephen
Resurrecting the Holy Mass, preserving the sanctity of the Eucharist from the hands of priests...and let us not forget the necessity of private and specific Holy Confession.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 7:35 PM By Lisset
God bless abundantly Pope Benedict. We really need to pray that all priests live out the vow of obedience, and really follow the mandates of the Pope. We need a Mass where we can really adore God, not a festival where we sometimes don't know where we are, beguining with the music and the lack of reverence that people show all the time upon entering the church. Again, many blessings for the Pope.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 8:46 PM By Jim/Pam Nicholson
RIDE ON RIDE ON IN MAJESTY, HARK ALL THE TRIBES, RIDE ON, HOLY FATHER!!! PAM LOVES YA!
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 8:47 PM By Luke
Doubtful, you need to find yourself a good Tridentine mass my friend! I simply cant go to a novus ordo any more.. I'm a brand spanking new Catholic (well, I was baptised 2 years ago but i still think I'm finding my "Catholic legs") and I was introduced to the Latin rite. I tried going to novus ordo masses during the week, I tried to like and appreciate them. I just couldnt bring myself to keep going. The irreverence is appalling, the priests appear to have NO sense of the sacred, there are extraordinary ministers left right and centre (all women), a woman does the readings instead of the priest or deacon, they host "ancestor worship ceremonies" and "Aboriginal Earth Ceremonies".. I get told by modern priests that i go to confession to often, that a lot of the things which the Church states are clearly mortal sins arent that bad, they screw up the words of absolution... God, have mercy on them! I can appreciate that a lot them have good intentions but still.. Like the world youth day debacle, people eating during the consecration, THAT FIJIAN PROCESSION, chanting the Gospel in English (for anyone thats ever heard Latin chant, you know why I couldnt watch that without cringing..). If you look at the Holy Fathers face while the procession is going on, he's either got gastric problems or he hates it as much as I do. Dont get me wrong, I do recognise that some good came out of world youth day. What other denomination could claim to have 300,000 faithful (well... at least they showed up) youth come to an event. Their behavior was also exemplary, disproving the secular press who said that there were going to be riots, drugs alcolhol sex etc etc.
Anyway, anything that the Pope does to bring the Church back to its former glory sounds good to me. Let us all pray for this man, that he may keep his feet on the path that he is walking (albeit in baby steps). Let us also pray that he has the courage to do what is right by his faithful, to stop hiding and discuss the issues that
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 9:01 PM By Ginette
I pray and hope that changes will come soon. I too suffer a lot having to assist at the new masses. I had the blessing for a short time to be able to assist at traditional masses. It felt like coming Home. Now I am back in a situation where I don/t have that luxury any more. And I miss it greatly!! I find it very hard amongst many other things to have 2 or 3 priests concelebrating for example and watching us instead or being turned towards the Lord and praying and worshiping him; same with the servants and ministers, etc... Peoples are irreverent, will chat through the mass out loud, etc. Personally I would rather stay home and make a spiritual communion and wait for the Lord, than to suffer that. It is a real battle for me.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 9:29 PM By JPeterman
This too is awesome news for the Church and just in time. With this global economic meltdown it looks like the time of the long prophesied "minor chastisement" may soon be upon us. Our Holy Father is getting the Church into shape for the bloody fight that's ahead. May God bless him and protect him!
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 9:52 PM By DJ
I find it hard to believe that there are so many people out there so quick to blame the "new Mass" for all the problems in the Church. The real problem is with the people. Many think God only speaks in Latin and that priests have to also. I really think the "reform" needs to be within people's hearts! It is not "HOW" the Mass is celebrated, it is "WHY" the Mass is celebrated! Jesus did not speak Latin. He did not face the wall. He did not even wear vestments! He said, "Do this in memory of Me!" The early church did not say the Tridentine Mass. That came almost 1500 years after Jesus! What happened in those 1500 years? Were all the Masses wrong then? Were they all invalid? Was that the cause of the problems of the Church and world? No!
Come on people! Going to Mass is supposed to be an encounter with the Lord Jesus. How it is celebrated really doesn't matter. It is what is in the mind, heart and soul of the priest and people. Remember that our Holy Father, Pope Benedict said the Mass of Vatican II is the normative way Mass is to be celebrated. The Tridentine Mass is the extraordinary form. So, don't count on our wonderful church changing every Mass back to Latin. And assuredly, don't count on the Latin Mass to cure all the ills of the Church and world. We all need to look deeply into our own hearts and souls and make the changes that we need to make in order to make Jesus the very center of our lives!
As for obedience to the Pope, I believe most of our bishops and priests are obedient. Please pray for them and do not criticize them. The good old US mentality of "freedom of speech" has been bastardized so badly that we feel we can criticize those who the LORD himself has appointed over us. Do we not believe that the Holy Spirit is at work in His Church? Let us pray that the Spirit, which has guided the Church for the past 2000 years, will continue to guide it for 2000 more!
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 11:24 PM By Anne T.
Hooray! back to the future.
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Posted Friday, September 26, 2008 11:38 PM By Nomlak
Regarding Doubtful's comments, you are frustrated as so many are or have been, but remember this, the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ who allows fallible human beings to run it, but He has promised that He will be with it "even to the consumation of the world" ... so relax a bit, stop being totally critical, there are a lot of good people out there in the Church working for God even though they are not perfect. Are you perfect, am I? No. Customs can change, just not the doctrine. As for finding reverence, peace, beauty and holiness, try the Latin Mass. There are Fraternity of St. Peter churches scattered around the country and others available. Ask our dear Blessed Mother to help you, don't give up because you are created by God, a unique individual, no one ever created like you, and God loves you so much that He would die again on the cross just for you if it was necessary. It is time to get over being bitter and angry and start working to make things better. Pray your Rosary really meditating on the mysteries and ask God for help, He will never refuse. Also remember that a Priest, good or bad, has the power to forgive sins in Confession etc. If you live in an area where there really is nothing available, maybe you should consider moving. In the Denver diocese people got petitions and wrote letters, prayed a lot and God gave much. We must be holy regardless if those around us are holy. God Bless You.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:03 AM By lynn
Here in NJ in my Diocese....out of 126 Parish's will be downsized to 66. .....What a blessing we have in Pope Benedict XVI. Pray the people here..will be open to Liturgical reform..(traditional-more reverent). :)
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 6:11 AM By Doris
Thank you, Holy Father. It has been hard for us who were raised in the time when catechism was learning the True Faith and when there was a tremendous awe and sense of holiness at the Holy Mass and in the Church in general. We were impressed with the fact that when we entered Church we were on Holy Ground. I can't wait until we are once again using the Communion Rail. Thank you, Holy Father Benedict XV1 . I pray you have many healthy years as our Pope.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 6:56 AM By Roger
Dear Doubtful, "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." I'm a Jewish convert to the Church; in fact, I was Pope Benedict XVI's FIRST convert (or at least tied for first!). I'm 59, was quite anti-Christian all my life, had mostly contempt for those who believed in Jesus. On April 19th, 2005–between flights on a business trip, sipping a cappuccino at Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix–I happened to be watching an airport TV monitor as Cardinal Ratzinger was announced as the new Pope. The camera zoomed in, he seemed to look right at me, and I fell apart in tears. It was as though I'd been torn open–by the sword of Christ, I would describe it later–and everything I ever thought I was or wasn't had come pouring out. Nothing in my life had prepared me for such a shocking, sudden, and, frankly, unwanted conversion. But there it was, undeniable, unstoppable, and after going through RCIA and waiting for an annulment of her first marriage (we've been married for 26 years), my wife and I became Catholic at the Easter vigil in 2007. I don't discount at all the pain and suffering, the frustration and anguish, of those like you who have thrown up their hands at the way things are, or as we perceive them to be. I have no idea what it must be like to have lived through all the difficult changes of recent decades and the scandals of recent years. And my simply stating that, historically speaking, the Church has been through far worse times of corruption and decay is I'm sure of small comfort. I was moved to tell you my story simply because it shows, in some small way, that Our Lord is still leading even the most hopelessly lost souls to his Church, and that in the eyes of our shepherd, men can still see Him. I would only close with my favorite passage from Isaiah (55:8) "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, sayeth the Lord." God bless.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:04 AM By JLS
doubtful, you have not lost, but have given up. The "gospel" you preach is an affront to faith.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:22 AM By Anne
How many Catholics have been left behind like Doubtful. I don't care for the label Traditionalist, but how else can we describe those that have found PEACE, SILENCE, MEDITATION, ADORATION, PIETY in the TRADITIONAL MASS OF ST. PIUS V. There are traditional Masses offered in every State. If you want to find these places (not always are they in a church building) you may have to travel, but you will find them...once a month is better than NONE at all. The Priests travel hundreds of miles to bring us the True Sacrifice and the Sacraments. Pray, and you will find your place. God will see to it. We have taken a small room in the house and made it a chapel room where we pray daily and on the 3 other Sundays, read the Missal prayers for Mass and make a Spiritual Communion. Along with this very wonderful gift we have found, we have a priest who is our Spiritual Director who is only a phone call away.
Deo Gratias! You too can have this consolation.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:13 AM By magdalen Mauldin
I have been so happy attending the Latin Mass presided by Fr Jackson of the order of St. Peter. The New Mass had become very "disordered" for me; not the Liturgy, but the Layity. The priests don't seem to be in control there. Thank you Pope Benedict!
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:07 AM By betty
I guess this is good news and you all seem to be enthusiastic about it but is this the best way to do it? Maybe I'm just digging up some personal grudges but don't you thank the old appointees and tell them that you appreciate the efforts they have made etc. etc. I thught that was the polite way to do things.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:09 AM By Charles O'Connell
Indeed, DJ, the problem is with the people, & not with the language. Philologist Mario Pei presented in one of his books, a very classical sounding set of verses, which he then revealed to be a Roman Army marching song. In the east the common tongue was Greek, & Fr. Mitch reminds us that both Greek & Latin as vulgar tongues were comparative late-comers in comparison with Aramaic, still the language of Eastern Catholic Rites. I feel I am seeing a problem with the language when the crossing of the forehead, mouth & heart is performed for the Gospel in Latin but not for the English which is later read; perhaps it is I who am wrong in this, that the former blessing applies to the latter - except that the Epistle in English intervenes. I see a problem with people who are so concerned to preserve their status as a remnant, that they seem, to me, to be deficient in the evangelical spirit which we are all commanded to exercise, having, to my perception, turned excessively inward. Read the recently re-issued "The Pope, the Council & The Mass": After each Ecumenical Council - the Holy Ecumenical Council Vatican II included - the enemy of souls has gone into an uproar, struck the shepherd & scattered the sheep, causing up to 2 generations of consternation, after which the purpose of the Holy Spirit in guiding the councils is revealed. What God had in mind in Vatican II must have been very good, indeed, if so many people have allowed their weaknesses to be revealed in the aftermath.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 12:01 PM By Anne
I just came back to the Church mainly because of Pope Benedict. I attend the NO Mass because I have no other choice but have some doubts as to it's authenticity. It's with this in mind that I'm looking forward to these new liturgists.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 12:12 PM By JPeterman
DJ the problem isn't the new mass, it's the abuses that came down a long slippery slope after the new mass. In mass weekly, I see: women in spaghetti strap dresses and backless dresses, guys who come in shorts and tank tops and sandals, horrendous music with heretical lyrics such as "I am the bread of life", undignified, improperly dressed eucharistic ministers, chatting before, during, and after the mass, etc, etc, etc. The mass is still valid (praise Jesus) and it is all we have in our area but one has to be honeset and admit that all this distraction and slovenly behavior is the direct result of the abuse of freedom taken after the new mass was introduced. It doesn't have to be like this though as EWTN proves daily. There just NEEDS to be reform of the new mass to bring back some discipline.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:48 PM By bj
The Roman Missal promulgated by the Supreme Pontiff Paul VI in 1970is not the "new mass"; it is the "old Mass". The the Roman Missal promulgated by the Supreme Pontiff Paul VI in 1970 is closer to the Mass celebrated by the early Christians in the catacombs than is the Traditional Latin Mass which was promulgated around 1570.
So will there be yet more changes? Perhaps an altar facing the East? No where in the Gospels is there an instruction by our Lord Jesus Christ to face the East when praying or celebrating the Eucharist. Additionally, is not God the Father, whom Jesus referred to as "Abba", present to all time, to all of the ground of being in all directions? What can we expect next from the traditionalists? Minarets? An admonition to face the East whenever we pray privately much like the Muslims?
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:00 PM By DJ
I am a priest who was in on both the "old" and the "new" Mass. I believe that I celebrate the Eucharist reverently and with meaning. I also challenge my people to do the same. Most do, there are some who don't and I pray that one day they will understand. I feel very strongly that the ordinary form of the Mass (the Mass of Vatican II) is the best way to help people understand what the Mass is really about. Too often, traditionalists (and I do not mean to be derogatory by this term) feel Mass is supposed to be a "me and God" thing. The Mass never was, nor ever should be that. The Eucharistic Sacrifice of the Mass is meant to change us and challenge us. We recieve the Sacred Body and Precious Blood of Jesus in the hopes that WE can become the living, breathing Body of Christ in the world today.
How many traditionalists pray in front of abortion clinics in the hopes that these evil places will cease to exist? How many traditionalists sincerely work for justice for the poor, needy and oppressed? How many traditionalists are working and praying for an end to embryonic stem cell research knowing it is ending a real human life? How many traditionalists actually take the time to read, study and live out the Gospel of Jesus in their daily lives?
Our wonderful Catholic Faith is not to be kept only to ourselves. It is meant to be shared and spread to others. It is meant to challenge us to live the Gospel message of Jesus each day of our earthly lives.
At the end of Mass we are told (using the Latin): "Ite Missa Est!" "GO! You are sent!" What we sent to do? We are sent to spread the faith! To live the faith! To be the faith! If we do that then it really doesn't matter what language or "form" the Mass is celebrated. Instead griping, complaining and pointing fingers of shame, why not accept things as they are and really allow the Mass, in whatever form it is celebrated, to really do what it is supposed to do? For Heaven's sake!
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:14 PM By ELIZABETH
ALLELUIA!!!!!!!!!!!!
KEEP PRAYING FOR THE HOLY FATHER!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:15 PM By JLS
DJ, that is an amazing revelation, that the Tridentine Mass came out of nowhere exactly 1500 years after the Last Supper. In other words, one day before that everyone was celebrating the Novus Ordo as they had for a millenium and a half, and then the next they all switched to the Tridentine ... overnight, and without the aid of cell phones and stuff to coordinate their change. Wow. And then 466 years later, the switch was reversed back to the original Novus Ordo?!
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:23 PM By JLS
bj, "present" is one thing; "union" is quite another. God is omnipresent, but not united everywhere. The Sacraments unite; the handclapping does not. As for the minarets, those are for those who could not restrain themselves from unholiness, and got wrapped up by the heresy. The Tridentine way of life has pretty much kept that from happening. Yes, fringes break away, but the core has not evaporated ... although the laxity of spiritual discipline in recent decades has brought the Church tremendous trials and tribulations: Do you not see the tide changing? Bishops more and more are tightening up their licence for licence. The reaper did a number, and now it's time to secure the that which stood strong in faith.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:50 PM By Anne T.
Bj, Pope Benedict explains quite beautifully why we should face "east" in his book on the liturgy, "The Spirit of the Liturgy" by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. It is in Chapter 3, The Altar and the Direction of Liturgical Prayer. Ad orientem (to the East) means that we face Christ the rising sun of history. For Christ is not only the Son of God, but the Sun of God (the light of the world). Facing East does not necessarily mean actually facing in an Eastern direction, although that is good, but facing the Crucifix and the Tabernacle which should be in the center of the altar. In other words, facing the Sun of God, the Light of the World. Cardinal Radzinger (Pope Benedict) writes, "In no meal of the early Christian era, did the president of the banqueting assembly ever face the other participants.. They were all sitting, reclining, on the convex side of a C-shaped table, or of a table approximately the shape of a horse shoe." Our Lord and the Apostles were reclining at table in such a manner at the first Eucharist. We can see that in Michelangelo's Last Supper.
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Posted Saturday, September 27, 2008 10:14 PM By Anne T.
The Chapter 3, I mentioned above is in Part 2 of of the book by Cardinal Ratzinger.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:23 AM By luke
Bj, what a ridiculous statement. Are you actually a protestant? "No where in the Gospels is there an instruction by our Lord Jesus Christ to face the East when praying or celebrating the Eucharist."
If you were really a Catholic, you would realise that we have both Tradition and Scripture! All this "where in the bible does it say" jargon is exactly the kind of thing I find myself debating against protestants. Where in the bible does it say Mary was assumed Body and Soul into heaven and resides there as its queen? Where does scripture mention Purgatory (yes, Macabees I know but shush I'm making a point here)? Where does it mention *insert random Catholic Dogma here*? Basically what you are saying is that every saint, pope, martyr and doctor of the faith before vatican II is wrong and now its all about progress progress progress! Bring on the rock masses, the ancestor worship ceremonies etc etc, as long as its progressive and "keeping up with the times", who cares? Take a quick look at some figures buddy, learn the truth. Diluting the truth in order to make it more acceptable to the masses is NOT THE WAY TO BRING THE WAYWARD SHEEP BACK TO THE FLOCK
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 1:39 PM By JLS
Fr. DJ posts: "The Eucharistic Sacrifice of the Mass is meant to change us and challenge us. We recieve the Sacred Body and Precious Blood of Jesus in the hopes that WE can become the living, breathing Body of Christ in the world today." Seems to me that the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ is more than hope, more than an idea meant to change and challenge us. Question of "Is He is or is He aint'" the real Body and Blood? Is the Eucharist a mere sign of hope, a mere gesture of encouragement to change? That is not what I find in Magisterial documents, including Scripture. Rather Jesus is that hoped for, and He is the change ... receiving the Eucharist consumates the union, which is substantially different than merely increasing hope and meaning. This difference in view explains very clearly the problem with the novus ordo ... it simply does not do the best job of explaining Who Jesus is and how we unite with God. So it is ironic to read a priest gently throwing out the better of the liturgies, and using somewhat errant explanations such as his preceding post, where his rhetoric would suggest the Tridentine has no roots, and is a blip in the history of the Mass. Fr. DJ, your subtlety is interesting.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 2:58 PM By Jimbo
DJ: I have reservations believing that you are a priest, or that you even have a modicum of Latin knowledge. Ite missa est doesn't mean "Go, YOU have been sent." It means, Go, it is sent." And we aren't told what has been sent. You also stated that the Pian missal is only five hundred years old, when in fact it is substantially more than fifteen hundred years old, as it had been celebrated in Rome. Only modest changes had been made over the centuries. I found the tone and content of your posts troubling. If you but took the time to check, you'd find that traditionalists tend to be more involved in pro-life causes, in ministries to the sick and homeless, and practically all other areas. They are also more open to new life than the typical novus ordo Catholic. They teach their kids the faith and often homeschool them, also. They more often go to weekday Masses and paraliturgical functions. They tithe more. They live the faith. I don't know where you get your information, but it was just wrong.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:06 PM By Jimbo
DJ: I have reservations believing that you are a priest, or that you even have a modicum of Latin knowledge. Ite missa est doesn't mean "Go, YOU have been sent." It means, Go, it is sent." And we aren't told what has been sent. You also stated that the Pian missal is only five hundred years old, when in fact it is substantially more than fifteen hundred years old, as it had been celebrated in Rome. Only modest changes had been made over the centuries. I found the tone and content of your posts troubling. If you but took the time to check, you'd find that traditionalists tend to be more involved in pro-life causes, in ministries to the sick and homeless, and practically all other areas. They are also more open to new life than the typical novus ordo Catholic. They teach their kids the faith and often homeschool them, also. They more often go to weekday Masses and paraliturgical functions. They tithe more. They live the faith. I don't know where you get your information, but it was just wrong.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:29 PM By BJ
Luke: I am a practicing Roman Catholic Chrisitian and have been for nearly 60 years. Perhaps my experiences in both the Vatican 1 and Vatican II Church have given me a bit more of a historical and experiential perspective than some. The primary mission of the Church is to proclaim and teach the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Many of these other accoutrements are interesting but not central to our faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:16 PM By Fr. M.P.
doubtful, never lose hope. It is always the darkest before the dawn, and in this time of great apostasy, it is very dark before the reign of peace mentioned by Our Lady of the Rosary (at Fatima). Those who persevere will be saved. *** DJ, HOW the Mass is celebrated makes a huge difference. Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi - as you pray you believe (and vice versa). If you read about the history of the Church in detail, you will find the 'Tridentine' Mass in its essential form in the early years after Christianity was legalized. As an old priest, you should know those things.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:58 PM By ann r
I'm sure many priests today think they are celebrating a reverent and respectful Mass, but many of us in the pews see a Mass where father is the talk show host and Jesus is trivialized. When father's presence outshines Our Lord's presence, things are very wrong. Everything--body language, pacing of speech and action, music, environment--should point to Our Lord with praise and adoration. Our priest retired a couple of weeks ago, and we have a new pastor from the Philippines. What a difference!!!! Mass is once again a time of prayer, peace, praise and reverence. Our former pastor has taken his ego into retirement.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 7:14 PM By Fr. C.
It all boils down to "Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness," and all of the theology with which that statement is fraught. God bless the Holy Father for reminding us that the Mass is a moment of transcendence, and not the banal. It is not about us...it is about Him. Can you do that with the Novus Ordo? Yes you can. Can you do it with the Tridentine Mass? Most assuredly. Should the Church strive do do that which is most faithful and beautiful? Absolutely! That is what our Pope is calling us to do, and we have the rich treasury with which to do it.
Blessings,
Fr. C.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:59 PM By Kris
Dear Father DJ and others: I am not a scholar. I have had the opportunity to participate in the Novus Ordo Mass when I was younger and now attend a traditional Mass. I tried to read all of the comments and I hope I have understood them correctly. I believe it was stated the way Mass was said didn't make a difference, but it does. Every single part of the Mass means something. It is the Sacrifice of the Cross with out blood. The first part of the Mass is the Mass of the Catechumens. It's purpose is to prepare us for the proper celebration of the Eucahristic sacrifice. The second part is the Mass of the Faithful. "It is the service of sacrifice, the unbloody sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Christ, the sacramental renewal of His sacrifice on Calvary." I have some wonderful prayer books for my young children that show how the Mass is the sacrifice on the cross for them. It starts with the very begining of Mass when the Priest makes the sign of the cross (Jesus in the Garden of Olives), The Confiteor (Jesus sweats blood), Kissing of the Altar (With a kiss, Judas betrays Jesus),At the Introit (Jesus is taken before Annas and Chaiphas), At the Kyrie (Jesus is denied by St. Peter), At the Gloria (Jesus is acknowledged as God and Man), At the Dominus Vobiscum (St. Peter repents for having denied Christ), At the Offertory (Jesus is crowned with thorns), Washing of Hands/Fingers (Pilate washes his hands) and so on. It truly shows us how it really is the unbloody sacrifice on the cross. Unfortunately, when I was younger at the Novus Ordo Mass, it was treated more as a supper with the parish being guest and even being served their daily bread first. The reality is that it isn't a supper with guests, but rather a sacrifice and we are the participants. A very wise Priest has told me it is better to pray then to start "wars" when it comes to discussing these things. If we attend Mass, say the Rosary and Pray for the Pope, things can change. God Bless you all.
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Posted Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:26 PM By Pepin
The Roman Canon (Eucharistic Prayer 1) has always been attributed to the Apostle Peter who was martryed in Rome and yes knew latin. In 1570 Pope St Pius V promulgated a perfect rendering of the missal that goes back to apostolic times. Let us start consulting historians like Baronius instead of rubber stamping 19th century protestant versions of liturgical history. Every Mass renews and represents the sacrifice of Calvary by the separate consecration first of the bread into His (Christ's) Body and and then of the wine into His Blood (since our Lord died from loss of blood not asphixiation) and obtains mercy for mankind. Every 11 seconds somewhere on earth (various time zones) the Precious Blood of God made man offered up in daily mass is pleading for us (this is what SAVES US; and is also the reason why the anti-christ will try to do everything to abolish DAILY Mass since it make the world wide outpouring of redemption continous. JESUS our one and only high priest and the principal priest at every mass uses the hands and mouth of the visible ordained priest to give to His church an atoning sacrifice of infinite value that applies in time and space the redemption He won once and for all on Calvary.
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Posted Monday, September 29, 2008 7:16 AM By Kathleen
Papa, how I love you!
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Posted Monday, September 29, 2008 11:12 AM By JLS
When did St Peter learn Latin, and why would he have learned it? The languages of his home area were Aramaic and Greek. Hebrew was the synagog/temple language, and Latin was the language of the Roman officials. Greek was the commercial language.
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Posted Monday, September 29, 2008 1:03 PM By Theo.Ventura
Very good news.
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Posted Monday, September 29, 2008 3:45 PM By Jimbo
JLS: The languages spoken in Palestine at the time of Christ were koine Greek, Aramaic and Latin. For the Jews, koine was the language of the marketplace, you are correct. Aramaic was the sacred language in which the Jews prayed and in which Jesus taught his Apostles. Latin was the language of law and government. It is not unthinkable that the Apostles would come into contact with all three on a regular basis in their travels through the Roman empire. The Romans conquored an Hellenized empire and imbibed Greek without losing their Latin. Are you to say that Aramaic speaking Jews couldn't as easily have imbibed Latin? It isn't a difficult language to learn, especially if you already know Greek.
And BTW, Father C...good to see you again, I miss S.A. and O.L.O.T.A
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Posted Monday, September 29, 2008 4:14 PM By Dan
"I feel very strongly that the ordinary form of the Mass (the Mass of Vatican II) is the best way to help people understand what the Mass is really about. " DJ, I think JPeterman expresses my concerns adequately, but I want to relate an experience I had some years back. I was invited to a Lutheran service in which the minister did the prayers ad orientem and the effect in my spirit was palpable. Right then I prayed that the Catholic Novus Ordo Mass would be celebrated with the priest od orientem, so that the congregation would get the picture that the Mass is about Him and not about us. I have been playing music in Mass for 30 years in the Novus Ordo and I am sad to say that the spirit of prayer has often been somewhat lacking and so many people just look bored. Our music is part of this tragedy. Turn the priest around and this will help direct the people's hearts to heaven, as well as remind the priest that it is not his show.
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Posted Monday, September 29, 2008 8:42 PM By JLS
Jimbo, thanks, you've saved me the effort of doing the research. What you say makes sense. BTW, I know but had forgotten that fluency in Greek would make Latin easy. I once heard a retreat master on tape explain that ancient Greek language is the gateway to almost any other language. Maybe I'll have time in Purgatory to study it.
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Posted Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:24 AM By Janek
Brick by brick the Holy Father is slowy as he must be in returning to Tradition, he know's he cannot simply replace the Novus Ordo with the Traditional Latin Mass without causing chaos. And here we go again about "language" the Traditional Latin Mass is more than just being in Latin it is about gestures, prayers, the rubrics etc. Like it or not it is not the same as the Novus Ordo even if the N.O. is in Latin it is not the same! We who love the TLM support our Holy Father in his efforts to restore the Holy Mass prior to the Second Vatican 2, traditional orders are popping up everywhere such as the F.S.S.P., Institute of Christ the King, with a waiting list for young men joining these Holy Orders, this cannot be said for the Novus Ordo seminaries which are either tiny or closed. For what man would want to study for the priesthood for 8 years and then just sit in a chair behind the "altar table" while laymen and laywomen do the priests duty?? Deo Gratias Benedictus XVI
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Posted Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:21 PM By Anne T.
Janek, I suspect you are "somewhat" right. I also suspect in the future we will end up with a somewhat updated Traditional Latin Mass. By updated I mean some small changes in the Latin of the 1962 Missal and more of an updated English language translation. I used to think we would always have the venacular too, but I am not so sure anymore. Wherever the Holy Spirit leads the Holy Father and the Church that is where it will go.
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Posted Wednesday, October 01, 2008 7:37 AM By Jimbo
JLS: May you be safely in heaven an hour before the devil even knows you're dead.
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Posted Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:26 PM By JLS
Thanks, Jimbo, and may that chariot of fire be yet a far distance from the both of us and all others of good faith!!!
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 1:56 AM By L.Theuma
Nothwithstanding all liturgical reforms and Pontifical Decrees, in praxi, we dropped the old and still binding norm of doing a genuflection to the Blessed Sacrament before receiving HolyCommunion while standiing. This is an authentic sign of loosing our faith in the real presence of Our Lord under the spieces of bread and wine.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:08 AM By Bernie
I can't wait for the changes to the good old days when I could admire the priest's back and not understand a word of the foreign language he spoke so fast that we were out of church in twenty minutes. I was in college before anybody told me that Jesus did not speak Latin.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:11 AM By Claudine
Talk about unbelievable!!! An Opus Dei appointee!! What else will Benedict think of??
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:11 AM By Jon Jones
Thank God there are so many folks in support of returning to the Latin Mass - because as we all know, God prefers to speak in Latin - even though it is a little difficult to speak it with my tongue in my cheek. Reformation is indeed needed in the Church - it is wonderful to note that the focus is instead on re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:29 AM By randomroyalty
While I agree that the average church service is not meaningful for many, changing the mass will not do anything. This is an attitude suitable for Pharisees, not Christians.
The whole point of Vatican II was to make the average churchgoer responsible for his own spirituality. In other words, The problem is not with the mass, but in the pews. Many of the comments here reflect and confirm my feelings.
If the attendees are not spiritual and are not living their spirituality every day, mass is meaningless. Mass is only a ritual and not a way to abdicate responsibility for one's own spiritual life (as it was before Vatican II). I personally do not want to go back there. At any rate with the shortage of priests there won't be much choice, if one wishes to continue following Christ.
Maybe people will feel better with some type of liturgical reform, and my sense is that many people think this will be some kind of magical "diet pill" that will fix the spiritual malaise affecting the Catholic church.
I can only pray and hope that others take up the challenge. You can't expect your personal coach to get you in shape if you don't participate. Your spiritual fitness is more important than physical fitness. Your spiritual life is more than just how you feel at mass. It is more than doing good works.
It is improving your contact with God.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:33 AM By Marie Diane Guay
Viva el Papa! Praise God! What a great hope giving news! What an inspiring team of liturgical, orthodox consultants. While suffering when attending the Sunday social gathering, I await eagerly the day when our Masses become God oriented again rather than people oriented.
Thank you Pope Benedict the XVI!
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:36 AM By aggiornamento
You all apparently have no idea just how frightening and dangerous all of this is. "Full, conscious and active participation" by the entire faithful was the norm and standard established by the Second Vatican Council. It remains the norm and the standard. Yes, with reverence; yes, with faithfulness. But with "full, conscious and active participation" as the principle standard for all liturgical reform (see "Sacrosanctum Concilium #10, e.g.).
Agg
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:42 AM By Dick Clark
Big surprise. He's continuing the rightward direction of the former pope. Noe of this has anything at all to do with Christ and you all know that. This is Caesarism, plain and simple. Glad i come to my senses and left.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 9:58 AM By Brendan
Sad to say in reading all this gibberish from the Pope on down that it confirms for me that it is not that: 'The people have left the church but that the church has left the people'
Thank God that: "his word is eternal" and we have that for our sustenance.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:10 AM By Larry
Jesus, who welcomed the poor and the sinners, who was a Jew but changed the Jewish way and thinking, must be crying right now. Another nail int coffin of "Love thy nieghbor."
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:13 AM By Bill
With few exceptions, DJ stands out, these comments are, in their author's joy at Benedict's apparent radical retreat from Vatican II reforms, without, of course, bothering with Vatican II collegiality or listening to the people of God, as appalling as the years of endless fulminations about the post-Vatican II Eucharist in the New Oxford Review, The Wanderer, Catholic World Report,etc. Never is their focus what the Vatican II changes are about--I suspect that most do not have a clue what they are about-- but nostalgia (often for what never was, in the 30s people in the pews reading private devotions, telling their beads, gawking, aesthetics, private worship in one's cocoon in a congregation as opposed to community worship.
The Tridentine Mass departed from the Eucharist of 1500 years in reaction to the Reformation challenge of Transubstantiation by emphasizing the act or consecration where the Eucharist is a community celebration, a sacrifice AND a meal in which the priest presides (early on the mistress of the house presided, before there was an ordained priest alone having the magical power to consecrate), a community action that opens to the acts of individual and community worship and love of God and love and service of neighbor that follow. The Tridentine Mass effectively reduced those in the pews to observers; the confection of the Eucharist was the end all, be all; if the congregation was to be observers, it became quite important to entertain them, as wonderful Masses by great composers in lavish baroque or rococo settings did. The ultimate consequence was absurd: when I was an undergraduate at Notre Dame, each 6 a.m., some 30 priests were mumbling the words for 10-12 minutes at 30 altars in the church crypt and maybe three or four more were doing the same in each of a do, many without even a server. This was not a community action and why Vatican II reforms ended such private Masses in ordinary circumstances: they distorted what the Eucharist is.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:57 AM By JM
Oh my gosh! You have all missed the boat! I do not think my salvation is going to be determined by reform, the Tridentine Mass, or changing of text. Well, I suppose by some of your standards I should be going to hell. Jesus gave us one simple commandment to follow: Love one another as I have loved you. Maybe if we all started doing just that, instead of worrying about language, the world would be a much better place.
And, Oh really, I did not know that some of you had a direct line to God that you know his/her language (that is now reducing God to being human). Besides, Jesus spoke Aramaic so why are we not speaking the Mass in Aramaic? By the way, I am a young 40 years old and I thank God that I never had to experience pre-Vatican II. Yes, I love the Latin texts, especially chant and motets, but let's bring the faithful together in the language of their country where all can understand and worship the God who is merciful, loving and forgiving.
I am very fearful for the church. We cannot get younger families to church now. Does one think that younger families will attend when they cannot even understand?
So does one think that the Latin Mass will get us closer to heaven? Come on people...Bill you are right on target.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:58 AM By J.B.
I attended the Latin Mass growing up - never understood a word, never got anything out of pompous priests who were totally out of touch with those of us in the pew. They were never prepared, read AT us and never connected the homily (sermon) to our daily lives. People fulfilled an obligation because of the fear of Hell. They said rosaries, read prayer books but were completely out of touch with what was happening up front. I welcomed the chance to fully participate and understand the beauty of the Mass. Vatican II asked that we re-examine what the early Church did and how they celebrated liturgy. Latin was the spoken language of the time - that's why it was used, not becuase it was any better than any other spoken language. Latin happens to be a DEAD language - how many of you can hold an intelligent conversation in Latin? Then why do you insist on praying in a tongue that is NOT your own, that you do not understand and that you most certainly will loose interest in during a Liturgy. How can we ignore the Council Fathers? Doesn't a Council hold weight. Isn't it more binding than the will of any individual Pope or bishop? We are mandated to obey the Councils yet we arbitrarily rewrite what we want. Churches have more ACTIVE communities than I have ever experienced in my 66 years of life. People come because they want to, not becuase they fear hell. Jesus preached two great Commandemnts - Love God & Love your Neighbor. Where does all this legal, letter- of -the- law end. I haven't figured out whose law, since we change it to what we want, and ignore what God wants. And finally, I never knew God spoke Latin - now we are reducing God to mere human status - that to me is heresy. Bill, you are right on and thank God the people to whom I minster are in agreement to your statements. If the Tridentine Mass is so wonderful, why do we have only 13 people attending in the church downtown when we have 1400 at a Sunday mass in our parish. Did I miss something?
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:05 PM By Pilgrim
Regrettable for sure, if not irresponsible as well. Why the Pope does things like this is difficult to understand. The Holy Spirit must be on vacation.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:29 PM By Jim
Holy mackerel. This all reminds me of a political cartoon popular when the Ayatolah took over in Iran: "Next stop -- the 14th Century!" Not one of you scholars has pointed out that Liturgy means the "work of the people"; what we bring to worship, not what the latest occupant of the Roman throne wants us to do. Vat-II got it right: full and active participation of the laity. And that's the law of the land. Council s trump Popes. Deal with it.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:37 PM By Luke V. Lauretano
It appears to be another step backward.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:38 PM By car
Those who resonate to the Latin mass and those who resonate to the mass said in the vernacular should not be in opposition to one another. The name calling, the "real mass vs the vernacular mass?" What type on nonsense is this? Isn't the celebration of the Eucharist what is important? What I like is that the community is part of the celebration, we the people are not just spectators. I come to the table of the Lord to recieve him in the WORD and the EUCHARIST. There in is the beauty celebration and I go forward taking the WORD and EUCHARIST to my daily living.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 1:00 PM By DomJes58
I agree with DJ (Sept 27).
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 1:15 PM By Googie
I can hardly wait to get back to the 50s.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:12 PM By Deb Bridge
No matter what side of Vatican II one throws one's liturgical hat, if there is no compassion, there is no Church in which God is known and welcomed.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:13 PM By Tim Kunz
God forgive the animosity of those who think the Church cannot welcome different points of view. We have four gospels that are fundamentally incompatible. They offer four portraits of the word of God in our flesh. We have had hundreds of liturgical traditions that were unique to culturres and regions--many are still valid.
By this will all men know that you are my disciples by the love you have for one another...
I (Paul) confronted him (Peter) to his face because he was clearly wrong!
When will we be a Church again?
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:54 PM By adult convert
News for sure, too early to tell if it's good or bad. Sure hope they don't rewind the liturgical clock, by having the celebrant turn his back on the people, bring back communion rails that emphasizes our unworthiness before God, or kneel or take the precious body exclusively on the tongue. Because God made me and infuses my soul and mind and intellect with his spirit, I would view such possible changes as negative, as an unnecessary separation between God and his people. As for the thinking (such as the late Maria Simma and many others have espoused) who say communion in the hand leads directly to a lack of reverence and belief in the Real Presence, I say bunk. Don't presume to know and judge my relationship with Jesus and God. As for the American bishops (for whom my daughter works), they have a nearly impossible job of guiding a diverse church in a democratic and free country, and are doing a basically decent job. May the Holy Spirit inspire and guide the American Catholic church, ordained and vowed and laity.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:44 PM By Joan
It has always puzzled me and maybe "scandalized" is not too strong of a word, that there are so many who wish to be disobedient to the voice of the Holy Spirit as He spoke so clearly through the Pope and the bishops of the world in communion with him during the prayerful deliberations of the Vatican Council. I remember that the whole world prayed for the guidance of the Holy Spirit on all those gathered under the dome of St. Peter's.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 5:54 PM By Bill
Another unmentioned dimension of this discussion is the history of the liturgical reforms. For at least three or four decades before Vatican II, the most concerted and serious study of the Eucharist and the structure of the Eucharistic service in church history rediscovered what was sacrificed with the Tridentine Mass, what the essential elements of the Eucharistic service are,and was light years ahead of the Council by comparison to everything else addressed there so the first area on which the Council took action.
I read fairly widely--for years read WORSHIP and LITURGICAL ARTS--but have yet to see a serious scholarly article showing where Vatican II went wrong.
Gregorian is still in; aesthetic considerations are still important; the priest's proper disposition is still important, etc. That some liturgies are celebrated poorly, that some take undue license, etc., is not the Vatican II rite but that situation. As JB notes, celebrations of the Tridentine Mass before Vatican II often left EVERYTHING TO BE DESIRED! True, we lack English music equal to Gregorian; well, have a Gregorian Mass once a month, a Palestrina Mass occasionally. Choose English hymns carefully with concern for the music as well as words.
Unfortunately, the East orientation, bitching about holding hands for the Our Father and the Peace are contrary to what the Eucharist is. It is not "My Father, who art...."
The kiss of peace signifes the peace and unity of the community, my moment each Sunday to bond for a moment with the blind and wheelchaired a couple of pews ahead of me who may not see or touch another parishioner from Sunday to Sunday. Etc., etc. Hanging onto the Tridentine rite is a divisive indulgence and Benedict;s addiction to it strongly suggests that, like his predecessor, he has abandoned much of the Second Vatican Council, the most graced moment of the Church in 500 years.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 6:45 PM By RR
WOW!!! You post Vatican II people have a lot to learn about the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The Church was flourishing before Vatican II and now the pews are empty. The only pews filling up are the Churches that have the Latin Mass. What does this say about your modernized Novus Ordo (Protestant) service? You always talk about how nobody knew anything going on or participated in the Latin Mass. That's HOGWASH! I am 43 years old and ONLY attend the Latin Mass. I truly follow everything with the Mass and fully participate in the Mass by praying to myself but with the priest. It's so ridiculous when I hear people say that. How can you say nobody knows what is going on or what is being said in the Latin Mass? The words of English are written RIGHT NEXT TO THE LATIN. Unless you cannot read, or are blind, a small child, or you are very lazy in Church, there is NO reason you cannot follow along and worship with the priest. You also observe what the priest is doing on the altar(NO TABLE) to follow along and participate. Show me a God centered Novus Ordo Mass and I'll show you ice cubes in the Sahara Desert.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 7:01 PM By JLS
adult convert, and may your daughter receive a nice raise for your loyalty and great insight. *** Tim Kunz, how is it you claim the four Gospels are incompatible? Is this something to do with the "sign of contradiction"? What about the "fifth Gospel"? And why are the three Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke called the synoptic Gospels?
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 7:21 PM By JLS
Bill, evidently there are some souls who prefer the significance of the rite, and others who prefer the substance. I prefer the substance. I always preferred real art over the painting with numbers stuff. The best n.o. Masses I've ever attended were fine, although they lack something which is present in the Tridentine Mass. Like Brylcream, a little bit'll do ya', but I preferred slopping axle grease on my hair (back when I had some). The worst n.o. Masses I've attended were bad and there were not a few of them, which I simply walked out of. I don't recall ever finding a bad Tridentine Mass.
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:01 PM By Mary
Funny how so few folks chose to comment in Latin, when they apparently love it so much and understand it so well. Maybe the Editor didn't pass their remarks?
It's good that many people are feeling happier about the Mass than during the past 40 years. It would be good if they were to accord a similar preference of authorised style to those of us who thank God for Fr DJ's words, followed by Bernie, JM, J.B. et al.
Al? Yes, his name and numbers are legion, and we're not going back or under. We'll make room for Tridentinists alongside, but we all know that when one side never budges and the other (friend Al) goes forward, the gap becomes a gulf. Division. "Et alibi aliorum . . . " etcetera. Sursum corda, everyone. At least the rift shows we're almost alive.
Your friend and fellow-Catholic, Al
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Posted Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:30 PM By JLS
RR, outstanding post!!! Profound last sentence!!!
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 12:02 AM By Tony Robertson
I watch with great sadness a a the Church I was nurtured in abandons its heritage of creative ritual making and witness to the preferential option for the poor.
I weep as I watch a new generation of men who seem to be more concerned with status and organisational structure than the radical mision entrusted to us by Yeshua of Nazareth.
We live in the Third Milenium and the "signs of the times" are calling us to something quite new and challenging. The Church is no longer a Euro centred community and this is what those who fly the Tridentine flafg seem to be missing.
Rather than restoration of the tridentine Rite we should be encourgaing a wealth of Afro-Asian Rites with the rich cultural imagery and language of ancient cultures.
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 5:31 AM By Fr. M.P.
RR, you seem to forget that with God, everything is possible. *** Mary, Pope B16 said that what previous generations held as sacred cannot be considered otherwise, and still less forbidden (paraphrased by me). So the sacred causes a gulf with you?
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 6:33 AM By Dai Yoshida
What the Holy Father does is always a step forward, never backwards. You don't believe me? Look who the kids are passionate about. It sure ain't Mahony. Papa Ben fans will out-live all the "Spirit of V2" hippies. I see the future and it speaks in Latin.
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 7:23 AM By Cathleen Ryan, OP
These appointments are scary! What will happen to
Vatican II liturgical reforms? Already our liturgies
are taking backward steps. And our churches are
emptying! Is no one listening and watching--I wonder
what the Pope is watching??
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 1:59 PM By Ed
Anyone concerned with facing east or west or north or south at a Sunday Eucharist just doesn't get it. It's the entire body of Christ joining the offering of the Christ to the Father in the Spirit, and that should be done in the words of the assembly, not a translation from a foreign language which itself came into practice because Greek was foreign to it.
Bishops, when will you speak?
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 7:09 PM By DJ
I have stayed out of this "fray" for a while and now I have to speak! As a validly ordained Roman Catholic priest of 30+ years, I am highly insulted when someone says "Show me a God centered Novus Ordo Mass ...." I truly believe that when I celebrate the Sacrifice of the Mass, it IS God centered! The focus is not on me, but on Jesus Christ who gives us His Body and Blood in the Eucharist. Yes, the celebration IS the Vatican II Mass. As a priest, I find it most disturbing to think that some lay people feel they can criticize/complain about the pope, bishops, priests and anything and everything in our Church. The pews are empty not because Mass is in the vernacular. The pews are empty because we chose to cut and slash each other down instead of realizing that we are as a Church, the "Body of Christ." (note I did not say THE Body of Christ - that is the Eucharist and that will always remain that way, thank God!) (BTW, realize Protestants are suffering the lack of attendance too! Thanks to our stupid hedonistic and materialistic culture) Since we live in the U.S. many think there is a "freedom of speech" in the Catholic Church. Sorry folks, the Church is NOT a democracy-we can't vote on what we want. We are a "Theocracy" - God is head and he has given us the Pope and bishops to lead us. I do not disdain anyone who loves the Latin Mass I just wish that there would be more compassion/understanding toward those who chose otherwise. Whether Mass is in Latin, English, Swahili, German, French, Spanish or even Martian, it is still THE Mass. For our eternal sake, let's start to live what Jesus has commanded instead of calling names, pointing fingers and thinking that "my way is the only way." The only way we will get to Heaven is if we live our lives God's way and follow Jesus. Heaven does not depend on Latin, English, old Mass, new Mass, etc. Jesus gives us His Body and Blood for one purpose, to make us ONE in Him. Let us start doing that and stop this foolish nonsense!
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 8:53 PM By RR
DJ: Well, I got highly insulted every time I used to go to a Novus Ordo Mass. There is a total lack of respect. Do the modernists, Protestants, Masons, and liberal Bishops think they pulled the wool over everyone's eyes in Vatican II and that true Roman Catholics will accept this so-called Protestantized Mass? After all, all the above mentioned created the Novus Ordo Mass. It is not the True Roman Catholic Holy Sacrifice of Mass. Also, I didn't say the Mass was focused on you, the priest. The Novus Ordo Mass is MAN centered. It is a meal for the community and not a true sacrifice. The Blessed Sacrament is off in some corner of the Churches so the focus can be on man. There is no longer the red light which signifies Christ's presence. It is not criticizing or complaining about the Pope, Bishops, priests. It is our right to have the True Sacrifice of the Mass which was taken away from us at Vatican II. I agree with you on one thing though. The pews are not empty because the Mass is in the venacular. They are empty because they took away the sacrifice of the Mass at Vatican II and created a new Protestant friendly service. They took away the Mass that had been handed down from century to century and created a New Mass(Novus Ordo). The name even says it all. Nothing that came from Vatican II was dogmatic. We are not obliged to accept to it. It was only a pastoral council. As far as Novus Ordo Catholics, I don't have a problem with them. They do have the true faith, but not the true Roman Catholic Mass of Pius V. As for me and mine, we will attend only the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and not the meal or banquet.
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Posted Friday, October 03, 2008 11:33 PM By Janek
My goodness you Novus Ordonarians are in denial, the above comments are just crazy. The pews are empty, seminaries closed, churches closed, schools closed, convents closed, Mass attendance at 25% it was 75% before Vatican 2. Traditional Latin Masses are packed with YOUNG families, Traditional orders such as the F.S.S.P. Institute of Christ the King have waiting lists for young men to join the priesthood, give me on example of that in the Novus Ordo you can't. You are worshipping each other in your community "Mass" while at a TLM all eyes, ears and prayer, are fixed to the Holy Sacrifice with the priest leading us in his duty and yes facing East. The days of hand holding, guitars, priests dressed like Bozo the clown, dancing girls, altar girls, Polka, Mariachi, Rock Masses are coming to a swift end and yes our Holy Father Benedict the XVI whom you all seem to fear more than the Devil will bring this about. You had your chance for 40 years and it was a utter and complete disaster and it is now our turn to retake Mother Church.
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Posted Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:14 AM By Anne T.
Thank you, Fr. DJ, for your most accurate post. I think the frustration of a lot of us came after Pope John Paul II and Pope Bendict XVI told us one thing and some priests told us and did other things. It is most confusing--at least to me.
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Posted Saturday, October 04, 2008 12:24 PM By M.T.Hill
Do all of those persons shouting "Good News" really think reform of the Mass and reaching into the past will bring Catholics who have abandonded the Mass to come back? Think again. I think not. When priests at the direction of the Bishop has a political speech where the sermon should be that is what keeps me away.
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Posted Saturday, October 04, 2008 3:28 PM By Grisha
Janek: Please hold on a gal darn moment here. First - no one is a "Novis Ordonarian." No such animal exists. We're all Roman Catholics. What's wrong with joining hands at the Lord's Prayer or sacred music played reverently and well on a guitar? I go to mass around the country and overseas where ever I happen to be ("Excuse me, where is the nearest Roman Catholic Church?") and have never seen priests dressed like Bozo the clown, dancing girls, Polka, Mariachi, or Rock Masses. I'm sure all these things exist but they are obviously rare. As for altar girls, I hate to admit this, but at our parish, they do a better job than the boys.
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Posted Saturday, October 04, 2008 4:51 PM By DJ
Excuse me, RR, but I am a true Roman Catholic and not only am I a priest, I am faithful to the teaching and magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church. Please do not think that the "true" Church is YOUR Church alone. The True Church is big enough for everyone - you and me. That is why the Holy Father has given wider permission for the Latin Mass. For those who wish to celebrate the Extraodinary Form, it is there for you. Please do not criticize those of us who love and celebrate the "new mass" with reverence and devotion. There ARE many of us who do this. Not every Mass is a circus or party! (BTW, the term "new Mass" or "novus ordo" is a misnomer as the Mass is THE Mass!) Your comment about Mass being man-centered is also incorrect. Yes, we may gather "around the altar," but isn't that what Jesus and his disciples did? In stating that the Blessed Sacrament is "off in some corner" is not entirely correct. The Blessed Sacrament, the true Body and Blood of Jesus, becomes present at the Consecration. The reserved Eucharist may be in another part of the church, but during Mass it is what is going on at the altar that is most important. The tabernacle is where consecrated hosts are placed for private adoration and for communion for the sick. (BTW, St. Peter's in the Vatican never had a tabernacle on the main altar, it has always been in a side chapel.) I do not fear Pope Benedict. He is the true Head of the Church.I obey him.I also obey all the rubrics of the Mass and preach/teach the true Catholic Faith. Janek, how can you even think that you can "retake Mother Church?" Where did you get that idea? Who gives you that power? We have had many rites within the Roman Catholic Church throughout the years (Syro-Malabar, Maronite, Coptic, just to name a few.) Maybe now is the time is for a "Latin" Rite. I am most thankful that there is room for all of us. This is as it should be since Jesus came to show the way to salvation for ALL people.
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Posted Saturday, October 04, 2008 6:52 PM By Marion
I am old enough to have attended Latin Masses for 23 years before Vatican II instituted changes to make the Mass more meaningful and in the vernacular. What I remember of the Latin Mass was that people rattled off the responses without having the vaguest idea what it meant, or they were busy reading the English translation as the priest (most usually) rattled off the Latin without the slightest sense of any sacredness. If you were ever an altar boy for a Latin Mass you know what I'm talking about. Other people silently said the rosary or read novena books or just sat there bored because it had no meaning. Unless you lived in a parish that had the time and money to train a choir, the music, even the beautiful Gregorian Mass music, was usually executed very poorly and it was a pain to sit and listen to it (no participation by the attendees). I think those who long for the return of the Latin Mass probably did not experience it in the "old days" and cannot appreciate how much we welcomed the liturgical changes that made the Mass so meaningful to us.
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Posted Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:26 PM By Anne T.
Fr. D.J., I commended you on your post (the second one I believe), without realizing you had written a previous post. In Cardinal Radzinger's (Pope Benedict's) book, "The Spirit of the Liturgy", he writes on page 78, in Chapter 4, "In no meal of the early Christian era, did the president of the banqueting assembly ever face the other participants. They were all sitting, or reclining, on the convex side of a C-shaped table, or of a table having appproximately the shape of a horse shoe. The other side was always left empty for the service. Nowhere in Christian antiquity, could have arisen the idea of having to "face the people" to preside at a meal." He goes on to express on page 83, Chapter 4, concerning ad orietem (facing East), "Where a direct common turning toward the east is not possible, the cross can serve as the interior "east" of faith. It should stand in the middle of the altar and be the common point of focus for both priest and praying community. In this way we obey the ancient call to prayer: "Conversi ad Dominum", Turn toward the Lord! In this way we look together at the One whose death tore the veil of the Temple--the One who stands before the Father for us and encloses us in his arms in order to make us the new and living Temple. Moving the altar cross to the side to give an uninterrupted view of the priest is something I regard as one of the truly absurd phenomena of recent decades. Is the cross disruptive during Mass? Is the priest more important than the Lord? This mistake should be corrected as quickly as possible; it can be done without futher rebuilding. The Lord is the point of reference. He is the rising SUN of history." He states throughout that chapter that facing East has always been the ancient practice of the Church. He says that it came from Judiasm that took it for granted that we should pray toward the central place of revelation, to the God who has revealed himself .
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Posted Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:43 PM By Anne T.
A correction to my last post: it is in Chapter 3 of Part two. The page numbers are correct, though. The Holy Father said in that chapter, also, on page 77 that the Second Vatican Council said nothing about "turning toward the people". I ask you, "Who should I believe? Pope Benedict, or the priests and people who tell me differently? Peter has spoken. So shall it be.
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Posted Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:30 AM By Luke
I thank God for VII. Know why? Because every single time I go to a Novus Ordo (misnomer my backside, what else are we going to call it? Obviously they are different rites and deserve different labels) I am reminded of why I only attend the Tridentine Mass. Fr. DJ, dont get me wrong, I have been to some very reverent NO masses but they all just seem to lack something. I quite honestly think that the Church needed VII, if only to make us realise what it is we had. I know I, for one, am forced to think more deeply about why I attend Tridentine Mass. VII was a pastoral council, ie. not binding. What happened after VII? Everyone packed their bags and left for greener pastures, shocked and horrified at the changes taking place about them. Later on, it was the apathy encouraged by the new right that thinned the ranks. Look at the statistics people. You've smashed down all the high alters and communion rails, thrown out all the beautiful statues, changed the calendar, altered the sacraments, chopped and changed the mass. Why? To stop offending the protestants! Look it up! In trying to be more protestant, the Church lost enormous amounts of its flock. Once again, check the stats. ""Hardly anything of what happened was prescribed by the Second Vatican Council, not the turning around of the altars, not the almost universal use of the vernacular, not the scaling down of the sense of transcendence and sacrifice, not the discouraging of the faithful from kneeling when receiving holy communion, not the receiving of communion in the hand rather than on the tongue."" Copy and paste that into google and read the article. Hey Fr. DJ, can you tell me why it was necessary to alter the sacraments? Throw the statues into the tip? By the way, do you say your breviary every morning? just curious. The Holy Father, bless his soul, has recognised a significant problem and wishes the Church to return to its former glory. All you modernists digging your heels in isnt going to change his mind
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Posted Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:51 AM By Luke
The liturgical reform, in its concrete realization, has distanced itself even more from its origin. The result has not been a reanimation, but devastation. In place of the liturgy, fruit of a continual development, they have placed a fabricated liturgy. They have deserted a vital process of growth and becoming in order to substitute a fabrication.They did not want to continue the development, the organic maturing of something living through the centuries, and they replaced it, in the manner of technical production, by a fabrication, a banal product of the moment.
(Revue Theologisches, Vol. 20, Feb. 1990, pgs. 103-104) Wanna know who said this? The one and only Pope Benedict, before he became Pope. What exactly do you say to this? He was wrong and we modernists are right?! "Oh well, its his opinion"? Like I said previously, the Pope is fully aware of the detestation that the new rite has unleashed on the Church. God bless the man for attempting to rectify the mistakes. If you have a problem with kneeling for the Blessed Sacrament, you should also read The Theology of Kneeling by Cardinal Ratzinger. “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it” (Matt. 7:13-14)
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Posted Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:31 AM By Janek
You know if only you would open your hearts, minds, eyes and ears for a moment and just understand all that you are missing in the TLM, the anger and outright hatred of the TLM is just beyond belief. I myself a post-Vatican 2 Roman Catholic grew up with the "Novus Ordo" and yes Grisha I have to say hand holding, clapping, rock music, clown priests did and do exist. Mind you I like rock music, clowns, polka music hence my ethnic backround but not at Church it has no place for the worship of Our Lord. Even at a young age I found it all very "childish" were we worshipping each other or Jesus Christ, well needless to say it was the former and in the TLM it is the latter. Still Novus Ordonarians cannot exlplain or admit the disaster of Vatican 2 I have given examples of the growth of the TLM, traditional orders and seminaries packed with young men and the pews filled with YOUNG people with many children please explain what the SPRINGTIME of Vatican 2 has done in a positve manner. I state once again dead and dying Holy Orders, closed churches, closed schools, closed convents, closed seminaries, multi-million dollar lawsuits, 25% Mass attendance, no belief in the REAL presence, etc. etc. anybody???? There is no SPRINGTIME!!! until last year with the Holy Fathers Moto Propio, Deo Gratias Benedictus XVI.
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Posted Sunday, October 05, 2008 10:59 AM By Leo
I DO NOT BELIEVE It. THE FAR "RIGHT" HAVE
WON.
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Posted Sunday, October 05, 2008 11:40 AM By DJ
I have come to believe that some who love the Latin Mass feel that this is the only way to worship the Lord. I beg to differ with that idea. The Lord can be worshipped in MANY ways and in many forms of the Mass. That is why I mentioned the other Rites in our Catholic Church. There is not just one way to pray! As a priest of over 30 years, I did celebrate the Latin Mass early in my priesthood, so I know both worlds. Those who choose Latin, please be aware that the "Novus Ordo," IS THE VALID MASS, just as valid as the Latin Mass. Benedict issued his moto proprio so that there would be wider celebrations. It was he who said this would be the "extraodinary form" of the Mass, not me! I have asked for compassion and understanding and all I seem to get is criticism and complaints. It is not my mind and heart that it closed. I find there is no reasoning with those whose minds and hearts are closed to what our Church and Holy Father have given us. This is my last post since I am leaving this discussion. Know that I do not judge you. Please accept my apologies if I have offended anyone by my comments, it was not my intention to do so. I was only trying to help people understand that there is room in the Church for everyone - as this is what Jesus desires. BTW, Luke, I do pray my Breviary and I pray ALL the hours. The altar in the Church I serve as pastor, does have a crucifix centered on the altar. We have statues of Mary, Joseph, Our Lady of Guadalupe and the Infant of Prague. Our stained glass windows show the Guardian Angel, St. John Capistrano, Sacred Heart, St. Patrck, St. Ambrose, St. Monica, St. Augustine and others. We have Mother of Perpetual Help devotions every Tuesday and all-day Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament every 1stFriday. I hear confessions Tuesday evenings from 7 until finished and Saturday from 11 am until finished (both times I am there for more than an hour.) Lastly, VaticanII was a valid council and it did issue dogmatic statements.God bless you all!
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Posted Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:46 PM By Francis
Do we worship the Lord or do we worship the Latin? I am not into latinolatry!! I believe the Church needs to rediscover the ministry of Peter....not the monarchical/imperialistic posture that is threatening to stifle the Holy Spirit.....thank God for Vatican 2
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Posted Sunday, October 05, 2008 10:18 PM By Anne T.
Fr. DJ, I believe the post-Vatican II Mass is valid when it is served according to the rubrics and in a reverent manner. The problem is that all this hand clapping, holding hands, etc. are not part of the rubrics of the Mass, but were brought in by people who did not have the right to do so. Women's feet should not be washed on Holy Thursday, either. The Latin says that it should be twelve men. I have seen in many places a simple ritual turned into a complicated one where everyone is stressed out because they are trying be so political correct and get too many members of the congregation's feet washed. They have even washed hands on Holy Thursday in some places, which smacks of Pontius Pilate, not the ritual Christ did. Also some women in the past/and maybe now have insisted on having their feet washed by male priests. Some priests are bothered by that, and rightly so. They are human, and these women would be the first to run to the newspapers with charges of sexual harrassment if some priest misbehaved, or she perceived that he misbehaved. I have no problem with the New Mass when it is according to the rubrics without all this extra "stuff" brought in. There has been a backlash because too many liturgists and priests have and are "messing" with Mass. Also, there is no unity anymore in the Catholic Church as there was before. I have gone to churches where people don't know whether to stand or sit, and at times there are some people doing both. That is not unity; that is chaos. One bishop tells us to stand, even though it is not in the GIRM, others tell us to kneel, and it is in the GIRM. Good grief! no wonder many people want the Traditional or a traditional-like Mass back. The Adoramus Bulletin has the right idea on how the New Mass should be as far as I am concerned. But even then they cannot always figure out what some bishops want because they are so divided on certain issues.
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Posted Monday, October 06, 2008 12:24 AM By Luke
Fr.DJ, I realise that your not going to respond but I feel I have to say something. While we may debate over certain issues (important ones, I may add), I have to say that, in light of what you've just said, priests like you are what keep me from writing off the whole VII sect altogether. I see holy, devout and pious priests very rarely in new order churches, however, when I do, they definitely stand out, It seems to me that you are one of those priests. God bless you Fr. DJ. May the Holy Ghost bring you to the fullness of Catholic Tradition (Tradition with a capitol T). However, I see far too often priests who refuse to give communion to those who kneel, those who "modernize" churches in the spirit of progress, never mention sin retribution hell purgatory etc from the pulpit. The list goes on. BTW, of the changes that you hold so dear, I suggest you investigate their origins. Most of them did not come from VII itself, rather, from dissenting priests and parishes, going AGAINST the will of VII. God bless you all, I apologise if my forceful comments have offended anyone. I perhaps did not deliver them in the most tactful way possible. I cant help but feel that you are running away from an issue that is plaguing the church at the moment DJ.
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Posted Monday, October 06, 2008 2:36 PM By Anne T.
Fr. DJ, I should have said in my last post that some bishops are having us stand for the Consecration and some are having us kneel, and it is very confusing for people when they are in another church for a funeral, etc. and especially since the Vatican says kneeling is the proper way.
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Posted Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:49 AM By Lou from Marlton
For my friend who feels all Masses are the same. I beg to differ. It is true Our Lord is there body and blood, soul and divinity. But the Novus Ordo is watered down. They have lost the respect of Our Lord in the tabernacle. I go to daily Mass. Sometimes I feel like I am at a bazaar with all the chatter. The tabernacle at times is open and people all around are busy catching up & talking instead of on their knees in respect and honor to God. Once you go to the Latin Mass and use the 1962 Missal you will appreciate how watered down the Novus Order is. Since Vatican II we have experienced a huge number of Catholics leaving the Holy Catholic Church in hunger for Our Lord. Our liberal counterparts in the Church has successfully driven them away with their antics.
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Posted Monday, October 27, 2008 2:37 PM By Pauline Russell
I hope and pray that the mass will remain in the venacular(in my case English) Already the Catholic TV network has much of the Mass in Latin, perhaps because that is what the Pope wnats. I do not speak Latin and feel that Latin only robs me of participation in the Mass I love. To me Benedict will always be the Pope who took the Mass away from the common Layman. What a shame.
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Posted Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:31 PM By CF-Naples, FL
I'm 51, old enough to have made my communion at the rail, to have learned under the Baltimore Catechism at first and post-Vatican II catechisms later, and to have worshipped under both the Tridentine and new order mass in its evolving forms. I've also taken post-graduate study fairly recently.
It's really dumb to say people left because of liturgical practices. They left in 1968 when the Pope issued the contraception encyclical against best advice of bishops and theologians asked to review the subject. The Church lost its moral authority by taking an extreme position by a Curial backlash to the workings of the Holy Spirit. Even the agnostic Bill Maher of "Religulous" fame might be a practicing Catholic today had John XXIII lived but a few years longer: his mom left then, too. Now a lot of people are "spiritual, not religious" because part of what we teach just isn't so. Oh, well.
That the theology and liturgical practice of the "new order" mass that recognizes the constant presence of the Risen Lord and the Holy Spirit is way too demanding for some people with whom I worship should not demand that I forsake it. A very few younger people seem to see the world as "right" and "wrong" and define their own personal preferences in worship and prayer as the only "right" ways to approach the Almighty. Most of my elders prefer what we now have, but there is a small but very vocal group who seem to prefer a God they can lock up in a gold box, who demands certain duties, and rewards rule-following. (Wasn't that what the Jewish Pharisees were about?) Many Catholics have great devotion for the Eucharistic species, while they still ignore or don't understand that Jesus is also fully present in what is read, in the joyful community singing, in what is authoritatively taught in the homily, in the person of the priest, within the worshiping community, in the visiting after mass...I stopped watching EWTN except for the occasional chaplet. Mother Angelica is a sweet nun, but the Lord she sells on TV is tiny and narrow compared to the gracious Lord that I know. I'm sad that my church seeks to close the doors to salvation tighter rather than open them wider to mak
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Posted Monday, November 03, 2008 7:50 AM By Frank
Attention, attention! All passengers of the unsinkable Queen of the Seas, Titanic. Please note that the deck chairs must be kept in the traditional arrangement as specified in the Rules and Regulations. All crew and passengers will take note and act accordingly (or else!).
Capitan Benedict
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